Ronald Koeman discussion

[Cork Evertonian]

The dislike was for the silly point about a realistic challenge on top 4 not happening since 2005. We may have blown it 3 seasons ago but we sure as hell were in the running going into that Palace game, and that was pretty late on in the season.

I find HK tends to spend most of his time moaning about the last manager and generally sniping and complaining and getting riled up by Davek. There's a lack of balanced discussion as shown by that silly comment.

Not a dislike for no reason, unlike the one you seem to have placed on my last post Cork boy

Hk's issues with Davek are between themselves.As for HK constantly moaning about the last manager.Well it is a contrast to Daveks constant over the top praise.I didn't think that post of his was a silly comment at all tbh but each to their own.So what if he likes to complain that's what a forum like this is for.An outlet to let off steam.As for that season we finished 5th under Martinez.72 points would have got us fourth in any other season.I couldn't have foreseen how bad the wheels would fall of the wagon after Martinez's first season.But i do think Koeman is getting us back on track again.I genuinely think we have made serious strides in the last year.

 

[bicycleheader]

Hk's issues with Davek are between themselves.As for HK constantly moaning about the last manager.Well it is a contrast to Daveks constant over the top praise.I didn't think that post of his was a silly comment at all tbh but each to their own.So what if he likes to complain that's what forum like this is for.An outlet to let off steam.As for that season we finished 5th under Martinez.72 points would have got us fourth in any other season.I couldn't have foreseen how bad the wheels would fall of the wagon after Martinez's first season.But i do think Koeman is getting us back on track again.I genuinely think we have made serious strides in the last year.

I meant HKs comment about us not challenging top 4 since 2005 was silly. You seem to agree, as you point out the 72pts achieved would normally have gotten us champions league.

The rest of his comment was okay, I don't fully agree but I often don't with HK. I disagree a lot with Davek too.

As for Koeman, its been a good recovery season with many positive signs but I am not getting carried away and my overall prediction would still be that he will do okay with us and keep us as we are now but will fall short of any real success just like every manager since Joe Royle. I still have this feeling it will be the guy who comes in after Koeman has us strong and stabilized that finally wins us a trophy.

 

[DrEFC]

If he strengths our team enough to get something out of half our away games, we'll be laughing.

 

[hktoffee]

The dislike was for the silly point about a realistic challenge on top 4 not happening since 2005. We may have blown it 3 seasons ago but we sure as hell were in the running going into that Palace game, and that was pretty late on in the season.

I find HK tends to spend most of his time moaning about the last manager and generally sniping and complaining and getting riled up by Davek. There's a lack of balanced discussion as shown by that silly comment.

Not a dislike for no reason, unlike the one you seem to have placed on my last post Cork boy

I do believe three seasons ago was some kind of a fluke because you see it from your own eyes what had happened thereafter. Yes you are right I despise the previous manager because with a fair bit of net spend at the time, he transformed this
club to Walter Smith esque after a year and that assumption was back-up by league results incurred.

Everyone has a stance on certain issue. I do not see why a poster shall give a balanced view on everything he said. That is called opinion.

 

[hktoffee]

I meant HKs comment about us not challenging top 4 since 2005 was silly. You seem to agree, as you point out the 72pts achieved would normally have gotten us champions league.

The rest of his comment was okay, I don't fully agree but I often don't with HK. I disagree a lot with Davek too.

As for Koeman, its been a good recovery season with many positive signs but I am not getting carried away and my overall prediction would still be that he will do okay with us and keep us as we are now but will fall short of any real success just like every manager since Joe Royle. I still have this feeling it will be the guy who comes in after Koeman has us strong and stabilized that finally wins us a trophy.

But ok I don't disagree with your stance. All along I am using the previous manager's golden rule in judging that matter in question. You shall review the issue in "bigger picture" and consider his tenure as a whole. There is no way this club was in a better position in May 2016 than it was after Moyes left. And there is absolute no point of saying 72 would get you 4th normally because in 2013/2014 it just did not. 72 got 5th that was it.

Koeman will be under more scrutiny than the previous manager due to Mosh's standard is set much higher than Billy, without a doubt. I respond sometimes because I do not understand how a poster can praise the fraud in such an unrealistic level and use him as a weapon to beat the current manager but ok I take that as an opinion.

 

[bicycleheader]

I do believe three seasons ago was some kind of a fluke because you see it from your own eyes what had happened thereafter. Yes you are right I despise the previous manager because with a fair bit of net spend at the time, he transformed this
club to Walter Smith esque after a year and that assumption was back-up by league results incurred.

Everyone has a stance on certain issue. I do not see why a poster shall give a balanced view on everything he said. That is called opinion.

Yes, but you didn't say that. You made a comment suggesting we didn't challenge for top 4 three seasons ago. which wasn't true.

It might have been a fluke, but we were right in there up until close to the end of the season.

 

[bicycleheader]

If he strengths our team enough to get something out of half our away games, we'll be laughing.

I think its more about playing against parked buses rather than a particular away thing. we need more nous in attack and have done for years.

 

[Groucho]

The dislike was for the silly point about a realistic challenge on top 4 not happening since 2005. We may have blown it 3 seasons ago but we sure as hell were in the running going into that Palace game, and that was pretty late on in the season.

I find HK tends to spend most of his time moaning about the last manager and generally sniping and complaining and getting riled up by Davek. There's a lack of balanced discussion as shown by that silly comment.

Not a dislike for no reason, unlike the one you seem to have placed on my last post Cork boy

Hk's issues with Davek are between themselves.As for HK constantly moaning about the last manager.Well it is a contrast to Daveks constant over the top praise.I didn't think that post of his was a silly comment at all tbh but each to their own.So what if he likes to complain that's what a forum like this is for.An outlet to let off steam.As for that season we finished 5th under Martinez.72 points would have got us fourth in any other season.I couldn't have foreseen how bad the wheels would fall of the wagon after Martinez's first season.But i do think Koeman is getting us back on track again.I genuinely think we have made serious strides in the last year.

I meant HKs comment about us not challenging top 4 since 2005 was silly. You seem to agree, as you point out the 72pts achieved would normally have gotten us champions league.

The rest of his comment was okay, I don't fully agree but I often don't with HK. I disagree a lot with Davek too.

As for Koeman, its been a good recovery season with many positive signs but I am not getting carried away and my overall prediction would still be that he will do okay with us and keep us as we are now but will fall short of any real success just like every manager since Joe Royle. I still have this feeling it will be the guy who comes in after Koeman has us strong and stabilized that finally wins us a trophy.

Lads. Lads lads lads.

The point @davek makes (and which is often misunderstood) is that we should aim for 72 points or higher. He's not denying that Martinez was far from the world's greatest.

Sometimes people read 'aim for 72' as 'Dave loves Roberto' which isn't really what he's saying. Then people take things without the pinch of salt that's usually intended and get het up and before you know it a thread has turned into a slanging match.

Sometimes I disagree with Dave and sometimes I agree with him. Same as us all, and all with each other.

Personally I'd had enough of Roberto to last me a lifetime and currently welcome our new massive cranium'd Dutch overlord.

Anyway this applies to all of us and not just 'the people vs Dave'. What I'm saying is, if someone, anyone, makes a point you disagree with, argue the point and not the member. Agree to disagree.

Monday rant over.

 

[Donald Twain]

I found his post match interviews quite refreshing !

 

[Groucho]

I found his post match interviews quite refreshing !

Yes me too

 

[hktoffee]

@bicycleheader

Then I said that in the last post. Simple as that.

It was a fluke not a hell of a chance it was/may not as you were suggested. The last two seasons were the evidence. There was a gap of 7 points in the end so I would not overreacting to it unlike 2005, because it was actually 4th. I am not claiming 2013/2014 (5th) was not a good season by the way. It was.

 

[bicycleheader]

@bicycleheader

Then I said that in the last post. Simple as that.

It was a fluke not a hell of a chance it was/may not as you were suggested. The last two seasons were the evidence. There was a gap of 7 points in the end so I would not overreacting to it unlike 2005, because it was actually 4th. I am not claiming 2013/2014 (5th) was not a good season by the way. It was.

And this is why I disliked the post and didn't reply to it....you go round in circles on a very simple point.

We were challenging for 4th spot in our last managers first season. That is all I am commenting on. We were in 4th with 5 games left. It was a realistic challenge.

You said we haven't challenged for 4th since 2005. This was wrong. That's all.

EDIT: Sorry @Groucho I read your post afterwards. I agree completely. soz for off veering off Koeman and onto an old topic

 

[Nymzee]

Why do we always seem to be talking about crap that happened 3 years ago?

Starting to sound like the RS here living in the past.

Let's just evaluate the here and now whilst looking forward to a brighter future.

 

[hktoffee]

Lads. Lads lads lads.

The point @davek makes (and which is often misunderstood) is that we should aim for 72 points or higher. He's not denying that Martinez was far from the world's greatest.

Sometimes people read 'aim for 72' as 'Dave loves Roberto' which isn't really what he's saying. Then people take things without the pinch of salt that's usually intended and get het up and before you know it a thread has turned into a slanging match.

Sometimes I disagree with Dave and sometimes I agree with him. Same as us all, and all with each other.

Personally I'd had enough of Roberto to last me a lifetime and currently welcome our new massive cranium'd Dutch overlord.

Anyway this applies to all of us and not just 'the people vs Dave'. What I'm saying is, if someone, anyone, makes a point you disagree with, argue the point and not the member. Agree to disagree.

Monday rant over.

Not trying to argue at all but he did say the previous manager's two worst seasons are better than the current campaign in this RM vs RK debate. And he ranked RM above the like in Royle and Moyes in terms of achievement at the club. Of course people like me does not help when a debate turns into a RM argument when it involves this RM vs RK debate.

 

[Groucho]

Not trying to argue at all but he did say the previous manager's two worst seasons are better than the current campaign in this RM vs RK debate. And he ranked RM above the like in Royle and Moyes in terms of achievement at the club. Of course people like me does not help when a debate turns into a RM argument when it involves this RM vs RK debate.

So disagree with him on it. I do.