Transfer Rumour Sami Khedira

[brieverton]

Do you think we've got enough winning experience I will call it? Not just older players, or players with games under the belt, but people who know what to do to get across the line.

It's hard to quantify what I'm describing, but United had it in bucket loads under Ferguson, and Klopp's Liverpool had it too. People who knew how to win. Not just in a chest bumping aggressive way, but as much they knew what to do at what moments.

To use a cricket analogy (as we are both fans) I've always though Steve Waugh exuded this. He would seem to grasp when his contribution was critical and would step up more than anyone I remember.

I actually think we've got a lot better at this. Ancelotti made a difference but so too has adding Allan and James to the squad.

Under Silva we were hopeless at this. I don't actually think we played much worse, but we would let situations slip away.

We have winning experience, to call it that, but not enough of it, and of an age profile where said players with any are not at the peak of their careers arguably.

You can simplify in football - management and motivation are critical and if you can add a squad of players that are sufficiently good enough to that, there's your winning formula.

One team goes out knowing that they are better than the other because they have the players to prove it - it can't guarantee success on the day of course but should do over the course of a season, if you regard league placings as paramount.

We all know we can beat Man City for example on our day, but they are better than us.

As ridiculously over-simplified as it sounds, we need better players and more of them. We are then more likely to win, and get that coveted winning experience.

 

[blue to the bone]

If he was signing i think it would be done already. Its known he has been available with a while now.

 

[catcherintherye]

We have winning experience, to call it that, but not enough of it, and of an age profile where said players with any are not at the peak of their careers arguably.

You can simplify in football - management and motivation are critical and if you can add a squad of players that are sufficiently good enough to that, there's your winning formula.

One team goes out knowing that they are better than the other because they have the players to prove it - it can't guarantee success on the day of course but should do over the course of a season, if you regard league placings as paramount.

We all know we can beat Man City for example on our day, but they are better than us.

As ridiculously over-simplified as it sounds, we need better players and more of them. We are then more likely to win, and get that coveted winning experience.

I think exactly this.

I only really play 5 a side now, but when I played properly you'd take note of better-older players. We were a county league team, but would occasionally get a guy who'd played at semi pro level come and play for us in his 40's or whatever. They made an enormous difference. There was one guy who played in midfield, wouldn't go beyond the centre circle really, but you could knock any ball into him, in whatever position with it, he'd control it and pass it to a teammate. Having him in the dressing room before made a difference.

I see a bit similar with James really. He will take the ball anywhere on the pitch, and the players look for him. Essentially as you get older, not all of your attributes decline, only sum.

Weaker, poorer managers are intimidated by such personalities, but I think Ancelotti relishes them.

 

[catcherintherye]

I don't really believe in it to be honest. Not in an 'experience' way anyway. We've had loads of players with experience of winning who have come here and not produced, or got this mythical extra 10% out of their team mates that everyone always claims they will. In the summer everyone said Thiago Silva would do it, but it's not exactly worked out that way at Chelsea has it? Phil Neville, Saha, Cleverley, Rooney, Barry, Delph, Eto'o etc have won countless major trophies elsewhere but none here. I think it's all about quality and attitude, not experience. The Liverpool team you mention doesn't really have much in the way of serial winners, they're just good players with good attitudes.

To continue the cricket analogy, when I was young and pretty good, my team switched league structures and we had to start at the bottom of the new system. We were unbeaten for 2 years and played with an arrogance and confidence because we knew we were better than the opposition. We had total confidence that if we turned up to play we would win. At the end of the second season, having just won division 2, we were in a cup final against the team who'd just finished 2nd in division 1. We turned up still supremely confident that our team of winners would be taking another trophy home. We got hammered. The opposition was better than us, and no amount of confidence or winning mentality could change the fact that they had better players. The same applies here. If Sami Khedira is going to come in and be one of the best 10 midfielders in the league then he can be the difference and push on to big things. If he's just going to come in and be another experienced head, he can't.

Yes all interesting.

1) I do actually think Phil Neville made a big impact on the dressing room actually. It's no popular to say, but I think he was an excellent captain for us.

2) I think Silva has actually been very good for Chelsea, but they are a young team.

3) We have similar with our 1st team actually, 2 years of winning every game, even with a promotion. Without dount learning to win is the biggest thing you caan do to develop it (hence why I wouldn't tinker much with a winning team). However certain individuals do have and command a certain level of respect. Khedira is one of those individuals.

I mean I don't look at our squad and think it's dripping with experience. Maybe others will take a different view, which is fair enough.

 

[blue to the bone]

I think exactly this.

I only really play 5 a side now, but when I played properly you'd take note of better-older players. We were a county league team, but would occasionally get a guy who'd played at semi pro level come and play for us in his 40's or whatever. They made an enormous difference. There was one guy who played in midfield, wouldn't go beyond the centre circle really, but you could knock any ball into him, in whatever position with it, he'd control it and pass it to a teammate. Having him in the dressing room before made a difference.

I see a bit similar with James really. He will take the ball anywhere on the pitch, and the players look for him. Essentially as you get older, not all of your attributes decline, only sum.

Weaker, poorer managers are intimidated by such personalities, but I think Ancelotti relishes them.

Have you his number mate .
He is probably a better option then what we have

 

[Sharpies volley]

I think exactly this.

I only really play 5 a side now, but when I played properly you'd take note of better-older players. We were a county league team, but would occasionally get a guy who'd played at semi pro level come and play for us in his 40's or whatever. They made an enormous difference. There was one guy who played in midfield, wouldn't go beyond the centre circle really, but you could knock any ball into him, in whatever position with it, he'd control it and pass it to a teammate. Having him in the dressing room before made a difference.

I see a bit similar with James really. He will take the ball anywhere on the pitch, and the players look for him. Essentially as you get older, not all of your attributes decline, only sum.

Weaker, poorer managers are intimidated by such personalities, but I think Ancelotti relishes them.

Fat boy Molby made a living out of it.

 

[zook]

Yes all interesting.

1) I do actually think Phil Neville made a big impact on the dressing room actually. It's no popular to say, but I think he was an excellent captain for us.

2) I think Silva has actually been very good for Chelsea, but they are a young team.

3) We have similar with our 1st team actually, 2 years of winning every game, even with a promotion. Without dount learning to win is the biggest thing you caan do to develop it (hence why I wouldn't tinker much with a winning team). However certain individuals do have and command a certain level of respect. Khedira is one of those individuals.

I mean I don't look at our squad and think it's dripping with experience. Maybe others will take a different view, which is fair enough.

Same here, not embarassed to have had him as our captain, definitely not one you could accuse of not wanting it or shying away, always the most vocal on the pitch and he knew what Moyes wanted and helped instill that message in the squad.

There were many times when he was the worst player on the pitch towards the end of his time but I think he delivered what I'd be looking for in a captain in terms of vocal leadership and determination on the pitch.

Was always a fan of him being a sub and him doing no warming up, instead just barking orders at our back line.

 

[barneygumble]

Yes all interesting.

1) I do actually think Phil Neville made a big impact on the dressing room actually. It's no popular to say, but I think he was an excellent captain for us.

I actually think whilst he was a good captain, he was the exact reason why we developed the "little old Everton", him and Moyes had that drilled into us for a long time.

Good Captain, but when the going got tough, he usually didn't have it in us, to drag us through it. But obviously compared to Jagielka he's like a Bulldog.

Appreciated his time here, and have no doubt that he gave his all, but Excellent Captains, have the teams motivated for big games, which we never ever seemed to do. (equally as much of a dig at Moyes this).

 

[Lanolin]

Yes all interesting.

1) I do actually think Phil Neville made a big impact on the dressing room actually. It's no popular to say, but I think he was an excellent captain for us.

2) I think Silva has actually been very good for Chelsea, but they are a young team.

3) We have similar with our 1st team actually, 2 years of winning every game, even with a promotion. Without dount learning to win is the biggest thing you caan do to develop it (hence why I wouldn't tinker much with a winning team). However certain individuals do have and command a certain level of respect. Khedira is one of those individuals.

I mean I don't look at our squad and think it's dripping with experience. Maybe others will take a different view, which is fair enough.

I think we're just looking at slightly different things here though.

1 and 2) This is kind of what i'm saying. Phil Neville was good for us, Thiago Silva has been good for Chelsea. But what they haven't done is brought with them this mythical ability to win. They have done well as players in their own right, they may well be good to have around the dressing room etc, but signing these players with a wealth of experience and trophies behind them has had absolutely no impact on the side's ability to win. Phil Neville was here for 8 years and we never won a trophy or an away game at one of the top clubs in all that time. Thiago Silva has gone to Chelsea and they've got no better at 'getting over the line', they haven't beaten any of their top 4 rivals and are defending no better as a side than they did last year.

3) That leads me on to the next point. Neville, Silva, Khedira, Rooney, Eto'o etc will all command great respect from their teammates, undoubtedly. But that alone means absolutely nothing. Unless they have the quality to perform at a level that elevates the team then all the respect in the world won't make a blind bit of difference. Bruno Fernandes's trophy cabinet has a solitary medal in it from the Portuguese cup, but if you put him in our midfield he would make us a hell of a lot better. We don't have a particularly young team, we aren't without star names who command respect, so we don't need experience for the sake of experience. What we need is more quality, and players who bring a better balance to the side than we have at the moment. If Khedira can come in and dominate games in the middle of the park and match the likes of Fernandes so we don't get humiliatingly outplayed again by United next time we play them then great. If he comes in and we have to listen to all the other players saying how amazing it is to have someone like him to train with and you can't help but be amazed by everything he's done in the game and it's such a buzz and evidence of how far the club's come, but we keep losing at home to Leeds and West Ham and limp our way to 8th with the slowest team in the league, then not great.

 

[blueblue]

If he was signing i think it would be done already. Its known he has been available with a while now.

It may be that they are monitoring the progress of Gbamin before making a decision.
If Gbamin can get fit and play a part in the team then we probably would not need any more cover in the form of Khedira, but if Gbamin looks as if he is not going to be ready for some time then maybe they might look at Khedira again.

 

[Goat]

If he was signing i think it would be done already. Its known he has been available with a while now.

Why would he take the first deal offered?

He knows he has the whole month, why would he rush into something?

I mean he hasn't played for 18 months, so waiting another money ain't a biggy for him.

Hes probably not even fit so wouldn't pass a medical atm.

 

[MikeH72]

Hearing Spurs stole in at the last minute with a three year contract. God damn you shrewdy Levy.

 

[blue to the bone]

Why would he take the first deal offered?

He knows he has the whole month, why would he rush into something?

I mean he hasn't played for 18 months, so waiting another money ain't a biggy for him.

Hes probably not even fit so wouldn't pass a medical atm.

Or maybe we have no interest whatsoever and its his side trying to keep him relevant.
If we wanted him I think we would have pushed it through asap. He won't be fit for a few weeks when he does sign .

 

[Goat]

Or maybe we have no interest whatsoever and its his side trying to keep him relevant.
If we wanted him I think we would have pushed it through asap. He won't be fit for a few weeks when he does sign .

Is this your first transfer window?

If he signs I would imagine it will be 31st Jan mate.

 

[billybeeru]

I don't really believe in it to be honest. Not in an 'experience' way anyway. We've had loads of players with experience of winning who have come here and not produced, or got this mythical extra 10% out of their team mates that everyone always claims they will. In the summer everyone said Thiago Silva would do it, but it's not exactly worked out that way at Chelsea has it? Phil Neville, Saha, Cleverley, Rooney, Barry, Delph, Eto'o etc have won countless major trophies elsewhere but none here. I think it's all about quality and attitude, not experience. The Liverpool team you mention doesn't really have much in the way of serial winners, they're just good players with good attitudes.

To continue the cricket analogy, when I was young and pretty good, my team switched league structures and we had to start at the bottom of the new system. We were unbeaten for 2 years and played with an arrogance and confidence because we knew we were better than the opposition. We had total confidence that if we turned up to play we would win. At the end of the second season, having just won division 2, we were in a cup final against the team who'd just finished 2nd in division 1. We turned up still supremely confident that our team of winners would be taking another trophy home. We got hammered. The opposition was better than us, and no amount of confidence or winning mentality could change the fact that they had better players. The same applies here. If Sami Khedira is going to come in and be one of the best 10 midfielders in the league then he can be the difference and push on to big things. If he's just going to come in and be another experienced head, he can't.

This. It’s a myth. You can’t just take some “winning” essence and bottle it up to bring to a new team. Either players are good enough to win consistently or they’re not.