2022/23 Sean Dyche

[edge]

I'm not 100% sure what you think I'm trying to say here but, for clarity, we aren't a million miles away from the situation Burnley were in in their relegation season (unbalanced squad, financial problems, asset managing new owners - this one is yet to be confirmed admittedly, no real money to spend, a couple of years of relegation struggle) and Dyche had no answer, they were in freefall. Yet many people, including yourself, seem completely sure, with so little doubt that anyone expressing a more cautious opinion is taken to task, that Dyche will not only avoid the relegation battle with us but that he will do it comfortably. All I'm asking for is the reasons you believe that is the case?

The club is a basket case, nothing is garrenteed.
I am basing my reasoning on his short time here, and his performance keeping a team in the prem with a very limited budget previously, he has done it before so I have a bit of faith he can do it again.
I am not expecting a miracle, just to be better than what we have seen last season and to be safely in the prem when we go to the new stadium
It's not a very high bar I am expected him to get to really.
I think he can do it with a little help.

 

[BlueStevie35]

That's code for buying massive English grocks.

How?

 

[windymiller]

The club is a basket case, nothing is garrenteed.
I am basing my reasoning on his short time here, and his performance keeping a team in the prem with a very limited budget previously, he has done it before so I have a bit of faith he can do it again.
I am not expecting a miracle, just to be better than what we have seen last season and to be safely in the prem when we go to the new stadium
It's not a very high bar I am expected him to get to really.
I think he can do it with a little help.

He may well be able to, I'm not saying he can't, but this very forum was full of posts like this 12 months ago about a certain Frank Lampard. All I'm saying is that we should be circumspect and leave yesterday's events at the door when considering our prospects for the coming year.

Dyche did OK. He managed slightly more than a point a game which is below our average for all of our recent seasons bar last year. I accept that our squad has degraded in that time, so I'm not using that as a stick to beat him with, I'm honestly not, but his performance has been decent, not spectacular. For every Brighton away, there is a Fulham at home, for every introduction of a player like Garner, there is the inexplicably repeated selection of a player like Keane, for every unexpected point, there is an entirely expected lack of substitution before the 80th minute. I'll admit, his defend the point versus go for the three is not to my tastes, but I accept there are lots of ways to work your way up the table and sometimes you have to cut your cloth. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in charge, he's obviously earned the chance to lead the team next season, but I also think that four months is a short period of time and that period of time, given the circumstances, is not necessarily going to be reflective of the future plans of Dyche. Now, you and many others may argue that that is exactly why he is likely to do better in the future but, I hope you accept, that could also go the other way and without the immediate threat of relegation Dyche's motivational style may not be as effective and his avoid defeat, rather than go for victory approach may backfire.

 

[windymiller]

How?

Pace, power, energy. It's not exactly creativity, precision, guile is it? Plus, look at Dyche's prior signings.

 

[edge]

He may well be able to, I'm not saying he can't, but this very forum was full of posts like this 12 months ago about a certain Frank Lampard. All I'm saying is that we should be circumspect and leave yesterday's events at the door when considering our prospects for the coming year.

Dyche did OK. He managed slightly more than a point a game which is below our average for all of our recent seasons bar last year. I accept that our squad has degraded in that time, so I'm not using that as a stick to beat him with, I'm honestly not, but his performance has been decent, not spectacular. For every Brighton away, there is a Fulham at home, for every introduction of a player like Garner, there is the inexplicably repeated selection of a player like Keane, for every unexpected point, there is an entirely expected lack of substitution before the 80th minute. I'll admit, his defend the point versus go for the three is not to my tastes, but I accept there are lots of ways to work your way up the table and sometimes you have to cut your cloth. I'm not saying he shouldn't be in charge, he's obviously earned the chance to lead the team next season, but I also think that four months is a short period of time and that period of time, given the circumstances, is not necessarily going to be reflective of the future plans if Dyche. Now, you and many others may argue that that is exactly why he is likely to do better in the future but, I hope you accept, that could also go the other way and without the immediate threat of relegation Dyche's motivational style may not be as effective and his avoid defeat, rather than go for victory approach may backfire.

I do think it could go wrong nothing is certain in life and certainly football or Everton,
But if he gets a fair crack at getting a few players in to suit his style, the time to imprint his methods on a squad he has , not in the do or die circumstances it might work out.
He and nobody else has had a bit of consistency out of these players, but at least he hot them to were he was employed to get them to ,by staying up.
We have no alternative anyway so , no use looking for the worse case scenario, let's just look at what we have and hope for the best going forwards.
Nothing to be gained by being beat before we have even started
Who do you want or what do you want to happen ?
Ps I thought lampard should never have gotten the job, said I would give him a chance but soon worked out he was completely crap.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Pace, power, energy. It's not exactly creativity, precision, guile is it? Plus, look at Dyche's prior signings.

Pace - he’s seen the issue that we only have Gray and McNeil as players with genuine pace to get us forward, maybe looking into a pacey striker to make the kind of runs that we’ve seen hit against us

Power - doesn’t feel Doucs and Onana are enough pushing forward from midfield

Energy - we’ve often accused the squad of lacking energy or looking unfit so he’s looking at injecting more into the squad either with better training or players that make themselves busy closing down everything

 

[Wat Tyler]

I just remembered Bielsa wanted to accept relegation and train the kids, something not right with him, so of course our erratic owner was desperate to get him. Crazy that we came so close to not appointing Dyche for him.

 

[windymiller]

I do think it could go wrong nothing is certain in life and certainly football or Everton,
But if he gets a fair crack at getting a few players in to suit his style, the time to imprint his methods on a squad he has , not in the do or die circumstances it might work out.
He and nobody else has had a bit of consistency out of these players, but at least he hot them to were he was employed to get them to ,by staying up.
We have no alternative anyway so , no use looking for the worse case scenario, let's just look at what we have and hope for the best going forwards.
Nothing to be gained by being beat before we have even started
Who do you want or what do you want to happen ?
Ps I thought lampard should never have gotten the job, said I would give him a chance but soon worked out he was completely crap.

We'll, we're going to find out soon enough.

 

[windymiller]

Pace - he’s seen the issue that we only have Gray and McNeil as players with genuine pace to get us forward, maybe looking into a pacey striker to make the kind of runs that we’ve seen hit against us

Power - doesn’t feel Doucs and Onana are enough pushing forward from midfield

Energy - we’ve often accused the squad of lacking energy or looking unfit so he’s looking at injecting more into the squad either with better training or players that make themselves busy closing down everything

Let's see where we are at the end of the transfer window. We're down to brass tacks in terms of finances and my bet is that Dyche sticks to type and we sign a succession of low cost Burnley 2020-style players.

I predict a second season with less than 40 goals.

 

[Gallaeo]

The win % didn’t change from FL…. But we actually had away form, not losing games since how long?

id take a comfortable 10-13th next season. More bloated contracts gone and new stadium opening. I think he can deliver that and we see how it goes. At some point a manager will have to get at least 3 or 4 years. I think he can stabilise and I’ll take that for now and then start to target real upward movement

 

[Swartzy]

If they don't, then what happened at Burnley is most certainly a possibility. If they do, and it goes wrong, then we end up with another horribly unbalanced squad. Our route out of this is narrow, I don't have the optimism that others do that this club + Dyche = guaranteed mid-table mediocrity.

I don't even want mid-table mediocrity. but until we get all things off the field sorted eg - Board / New Investment and a total New restructure of the direction in which we want this club to be heading. if that means dyche takes us in to BMD than 'so be it'.

Once we're sorted off the the field, We can fully concentrate on the future plans on the field ( Or were just going round in circles )
Its time now to ( Finally ) give full reigns to our DOF to start building/Implementing the direction of this club..
( Rather then just have a DOF for the the title and nothing else )

This isn't going to happen overnight, that's why we have to fully concentrate on the infrastructure of the club and actually have a Plan/ Direction that we believe in and stick to...

Than manager Lists will form themselves.

 

[windymiller]

I don't even want mid-table mediocrity. but until we get all things off the field sorted eg - Board / New Investment and a total New restructure of the direction in which we want this club to be heading. if that means dyche takes us in to BMD than 'so be it'.

Once we're sorted off the the field, We can fully concentrate on the future plans on the field ( Or were just going round in circles )
Its time now to ( Finally ) give full reigns to our DOF to start building/Implementing the direction of this club..
( Rather then just have a DOF for the the title and nothing else )

This isn't going to happen overnight, that's why we have to fully concentrate on the infrastructure of the club and actually have a Plan/ Direction that we believe in and stick to...

Than manager Lists will form themselves.

No one does, but I think we all accept that that is probably our best case scenario in the short term. My point was that, despite seemingly popular opinion, Mr Dyche is not a guarantee that we will finish that high up the table.

I agree about the DoF, btw, but without board room changes that is likely pie in the sky.

 

[Titus Shambles]

I just remembered Bielsa wanted to accept relegation and train the kids, something not right with him, so of course our erratic owner was desperate to get him. Crazy that we came so close to not appointing Dyche for him.

Not sure we were ever really all that close to appointing Bielsa, beyond him flying in for an interview was it. The guy wanted something like £11m a year salary on top of the loco demand to only work with the kids. We can barely afford to hire-n-fire managers as it is, so twas always a no-brainer to hire the guy who was available, knows the league/players, speaks the language and wanted the job for less than half what a volatile Bielsa wanted.

 

[edge]

We'll, we're going to find out soon enough.

Sure will?
I asked who you thought could garrentee a better outcome,
no thoughts?
if Dyche inspired no confidence who does?

 

[Titus Shambles]

Let's see where we are at the end of the transfer window. We're down to brass tacks in terms of finances and my bet is that Dyche sticks to type and we sign a succession of low cost Burnley 2020-style players.

I predict a second season with less than 40 goals.

Assuming Dyche has any control/say over transfers and not the DOF, he'll absolutely look to bring in a few of his kind of player: dependable, reliable, functional, hard workers, etc. Never in a million years could I see Dyche accomodating someone like a James Rodriguez because he's all about work over talent.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if we're a functional-but-effective team next season under Dyche; nothing overly fancy or particularly entertaining, but gets the job done, 40-50 points on the board, comfortable 14th ish place finish. The owner/board would happily take that all day long.