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2022/23 Sean Dyche

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davek said:
I've seen all that in the Sean Dyche 'masterclass' video. The point is that we dont have those type of forwards that can work the system. They wont press. Maupay cant do that, and Calvert-Lewin has been jogging about aimlessly for a calendar year trying to avoid injury.
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I reckon he'll sack off DCL if he doesn't play to the way Dyche wants him to. Maupay always looked good pressing in the Brighton team and when he played as a partnership.

It's an odd one with Maupay in that he's played for Brentford and Brighton, where they have scouting systems that are much heralded and look at analytics as a way of choosing their players.

I think he'll look a much better player in a team coached effectively and playing as a front two. He might not get the goals but I think he'll do a lot of the donkey work.
 
davek said:
I've seen all that in the Sean Dyche 'masterclass' video. The point is that we dont have those type of forwards that can work the system. They wont press. Maupay cant do that, and Calvert-Lewin has been jogging about aimlessly for a calendar year trying to avoid injury.
Click to expand...

Very fair point.

I guess that's where we differ - I think the fact that Dyche will coach the team into a more organised press (where players know the triggers and when to squeeze up as a group) will lead to a big difference for both forwards. Main reason for this is that there'll be more belief that they'll actually win the ball back (because they'll go as a group, not individually) rather than immediately have the ball cut through them like has happened for the past 20+ games - hence they will be seen to be moving more. It'll get packaged by some folks as 'disgraceful players who wouldn't put in this effort for Frank, they threw him under the bus' - in reality it'll be because Dyche has coached them to be smarter where Lampard did not, rather than a lack of effort on the two forwards part.

Be interesting to see where Gueye fits in too - I wouldn't be too surprised to see him played further forward, possibly in that one behind the striker. Makes the most of his ability to tirelessly press, and minimises how damaging his mistakes on the ball are (as they occur further up the pitch).
 
Jebus_lives said:
I reckon he'll sack off Dominic Calvert-Lewin if he doesn't play to the way Dyche wants him to. Maupay always looked good pressing in the Brighton team and when he played as a partnership.

It's an odd one with Maupay in that he's played for Brentford and Brighton, where they have scouting systems that are much heralded and look at analytics as a way of choosing their players.

I think he'll look a much better player in a team coached effectively and playing as a front two. He might not get the goals but I think he'll do a lot of the donkey work.
Click to expand...
...and who goes in to replace him?
 

davek said:
I've seen all that in the Sean Dyche 'masterclass' video. The point is that we dont have those type of forwards that can work the system. They wont press. Maupay cant do that, and Calvert-Lewin has been jogging about aimlessly for a calendar year trying to avoid injury.
Click to expand...

I think you're possibly wrong re Maupay, he certainly isn't the player you can put balls into channels and ask him to hold the ball up, but he can work hard and probably be more use in a front two than he's been for us playing a lone striker role with nobody near him

On Calvert-Lewin, we genuinely are just hoping he can get fit and stay fit and on the evidence of the last 18 months, that's a big ask and tbh I think it's ultimately the thing which will send us down
 
Tilling said:
Very fair point.

I guess that's where we differ - I think the fact that Dyche will coach the team into a more organised press (where players know the triggers and when to squeeze up as a group) will lead to a big difference for both forwards. Main reason for this is that there'll be more belief that they'll actually win the ball back (because they'll go as a group, not individually) rather than immediately have the ball cut through them like has happened for the past 20+ games - hence they will be seen to be moving more. It'll get packaged by some folks as 'disgraceful players who wouldn't put in this effort for Frank, they threw him under the bus' - in reality it'll be because Dyche has coached them to be smarter where Lampard did not, rather than a lack of effort on the two forwards part.

Be interesting to see where Gueye fits in too - I wouldn't be too surprised to see him played further forward, possibly in that one behind the striker. Makes the most of his ability to tirelessly press, and minimises how damaging his mistakes on the ball are (as they occur further up the pitch).
Click to expand...
I dont doubt they'll be more together and supportive on the pitch as a unit. The overall press might improve over time (that we dont have), but do we have the man-power up front to a/ get goals and b/ stretch their effort to 18 games withouth breaking down? I doubt we can tick either of those two boxes...which is why it was criminal of Dyche to take this job.

Dyche will bank on retaining the position when relegated by geting a better performance and points total in 8 games than Lampard got from 20. That's nice for him personally if he gets it, but it wont mean we stay up, which is all Ilm bothered about.
 
allen said:
Interesting watch.

Gray as a second striker isn't something I'd considered, but it could work with Dyche's style.
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Then we're short out wide - because Gordon has left and Townsend is still way off.

We needed bodies in and we didn't get them. At the very least when Danjuma didn't happen Gordon's departure should have been blocked at all costs.
 

The next 2 games are basically as hard as they get, the possible champions and RS away.

I'm pleased it's like this for Dyche's for Dyche's "debut", he'll be so up for it and hopefully so will our boys.

Anything out of these games, even a point will boost moral no end.
I'd hate to be starting against Soton or someone and lose that game, that would be a true kick in the teeth.

This just could be the start and fixtures Dyche and the team need. At the end of the day my old manager used to say before we played a cup game against a team from a higher league......"It's 11 v 11, now show them you're as good"
Here's hoping anyway.

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allen said:
Interesting watch.

Gray as a second striker isn't something I'd considered, but it could work with Dyche's style.
Click to expand...

The bit towards the end about whether this squad actually fits a 4-4-2 is the best bit; lots of conundrums already really. The obvious one is DCL - if he goes down, we're in the realms of Simms or Onana up top so that we have someone who the ball can stick to; pretty chilling stuff.

But the more interesting one in my opinion is how you set up on those flanks - the fullbacks thus far have been really poor but there's not much challenge to them; McNeil got binned off by Dyche for a lack of effort last time out and is in abysmal form; Iwobi has been far better through the middle over the last year; Garner is injured and not the quickest anyway; we've sold Gordon; we might need Gray through the middle; Doucoure maybe involved too but has seemingly spat the dummy out?

Maybe Mills gets given a go on the right and Iwobi on the left? So many different possible approaches here, and you get the sense that only 1 or 2 of them will actually work...
 
Jebus_lives said:
I reckon he'll sack off Dominic Calvert-Lewin if he doesn't play to the way Dyche wants him to. Maupay always looked good pressing in the Brighton team and when he played as a partnership.

It's an odd one with Maupay in that he's played for Brentford and Brighton, where they have scouting systems that are much heralded and look at analytics as a way of choosing their players.

I think he'll look a much better player in a team coached effectively and playing as a front two. He might not get the goals but I think he'll do a lot of the donkey work.
Click to expand...
This is one of Maupay's main strengths and he has actually been among the best in class in this area in the PL. But everyone can look a little hopeless in a pressure that is not well organized, at all, in a team that is not well organized and that lacks fitness. If we get this sorted, we will be more difficult to break down, win the ball more often, and as a consequence create more goal chances. It's not rocket science.
 
toffeeblue9 said:
I think you're possibly wrong re Maupay, he certainly isn't the player you can put balls into channels and ask him to hold the ball up, but he can work hard and probably be more use in a front two than he's been for us playing a lone striker role with nobody near him

On Calvert-Lewin, we genuinely are just hoping he can get fit and stay fit and on the evidence of the last 18 months, that's a big ask and tbh I think it's ultimately the thing which will send us down
Click to expand...
We just dont have enough up front and out wide.

The lack of depth is going to kill us. The first major injury we have in attacking positions - and it will happen - the season is over.
 

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