Shocking Refs

[Ihaters]

Some of your list the other day are, some aren't.

The Benteke example above, thats clearly a case of the refereee not thinking that a foul was committed but Benteke simply outjumped a standing defender using just enough force to be within the rules.

Jeffrey didn't, similar to the Pienaar/Arteta "foul" (and others), the ref didn't think it was a foul, some fans don't think it was a foul some fans do. In cases like these its simply a case of how an individual views an incident and how it falls in accordance to the laws of the game.

Yeah but if Pienaar/Arteta isn't then neither is Fellaini/Dzeko which for that very reason doesn't go on the list... it either is a pen for both in which case we missed a pen shout and the Dzeko one was correct, or it isn't in which case the Arteta one was correct and the Dzeko one wasn't. Neither option helps us when both decisions went against us.
Which others are you thinking mate? Norwich is perhaps debatable as it was a soft free kick to concede but he does touch him. The rest are pretty much evidence based incorrect decisions with no opinion required to decipher a correct verdict as far as I can tell..
A stamp is a red card.. as is 2.
Onside is onside
Offside isn't
A ball across the line is a goal etc
The whole point of the list was to show definitively accountable decisions that have massively changed the game not in our favor or failed to change it in our favor when it should have, backed up with evidence that the decision is genuinely incorrect. If there are some you disagree with I'll take a look and change the list.
As far as I can tell there are over a dozen massive decisions in as many games and that's really poor.
We may not be playing well enough to destroy our opposition but I would expect at least sometimes that narrowly beating them should count.

 

[Tubey]

Personally, i think this is the worst season I can recall for poor officiating in the EPL for many a year, for all teams.

Spot on. That's the be all, end all of the discussion really.

Anyone who believes Everton are being targeted need their head testing. Or need to watch other games of football other than just those that involve Everton, one of the two.

 

[ijjysmith]

Spot on. That's the be all, end all of the discussion really.

Anyone who believes Everton are being targeted need their head testing. Or need to watch other games of football other than just those that involve Everton, one of the two.

Thank god for you mate.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Yeah but if Pienaar/Arteta isn't then neither is Fellaini/Dzeko which for that very reason doesn't go on the list... it either is a pen for both in which case we missed a pen shout and the Dzeko one was correct, or it isn't in which case the Arteta one was correct and the Dzeko one wasn't. Neither option helps us when both decisions went against us.
Which others are you thinking mate? Norwich is perhaps debatable as it was a soft free kick to concede but he does touch him. The rest are pretty much evidence based incorrect decisions with no opinion required to decipher a correct verdict as far as I can tell..
A stamp is a red card.. as is 2.
Onside is onside
Offside isn't
A ball across the line is a goal etc
The whole point of the list was to show definitively accountable decisions that have massively changed the game not in our favor or failed to change it in our favor when it should have, backed up with evidence that the decision is genuinely incorrect. If there are some you disagree with I'll take a look and change the list.
As far as I can tell there are over a dozen massive decisions in as many games and that's really poor.
We may not be playing well enough to destroy our opposition but I would expect at least sometimes that narrowly beating them should count.

That pretty much sums it up, for me.

Two final points. If the contact Benteke made was insufficient to consistute a foul, and Coates similar climb on Jagielka, how could Baines comparatively light touch on the Norwich player be a foul?

And Tubey, I don't think any of us are saying that Everton are being targetted, simply that we have had a lot of poor decisions
this season. There have been a lot of bad decisions in many other matches, but we're talking about Everton here.

 

[Ihaters]

That pretty much sums it up, for me.

Two final points. If the contact Benteke made was insufficient to consistute a foul, and Coates similar climb on Jagielka, how could Baines comparatively light touch on the Norwich player be a foul?

And Tubey, I don't think any of us are saying that Everton are being targetted, simply that we have had a lot of poor decisions
this season. There have been a lot of bad decisions in many other matches, but we're talking about Everton here.

Well said sir... That's the be all, end all of the discussion for me rather than it being.. we're getting screwed but no one else is, or.. the ref's have it in for us.. which as far as I am aware no one has said at all for either of those things.
Some are getting it worse than others and we are clearly at the wrong end of the spectrum but even those with a positive tick in their games major decisions will of had crap calls go against them sometimes.

 

[Jacko93]

So, are the Refs poor, or are we just bad a defending?

 

[PeterMeter]

So, are the Refs poor, or are we just bad a defending?

We're piss-poor at defending shocking refs.

 

[D410]

Kevin Friend is the ref on Sunday - shudders

 

[wandyr79]

Spot on. That's the be all, end all of the discussion really.

Anyone who believes Everton are being targeted need their head testing. Or need to watch other games of football other than just those that involve Everton, one of the two.

Bang on

It has been an awful season for refereeing, I am surprised that more hasn't been made of it in the media.

 

[jtl60]

So, are the Refs poor, or are we just bad a defending?

We are just shocking at making the most of incidents. The few seconds at Man City explain everything that is wrong with football in a way in that both Lescott and Felliani were committing fouls. Jagielka held is ground and tried to shake Lescott off, Dzeco threw himself on the floor in dramatic fashion and gets the pen.

I think we need to sod the moral high ground, had Jags thrown himself onto the floor when Lescott was dragging him down or when Coates was using him as a step ladder things might be very different !

 

[toffeejack]

We are just shocking at making the most of incidents. The few seconds at Man City explain everything that is wrong with football in a way in that both Lescott and Felliani were committing fouls. Jagielka held is ground and tried to shake Lescott off, Dzeco threw himself on the floor in dramatic fashion and gets the pen.

I think we need to sod the moral high ground, had Jags thrown himself onto the floor when Lescott was dragging him down or when Coates was using him as a step ladder things might be very different !

i know you'll get people agreeing with you, but whatever we're going to achieve, we'll do it with dignity. we're everton, nil satis nisi optimum - and this relates to how we play the game as well. we'll worry about setting the standards, if youngsters want to look up to a 7ft diving after a shirt pull then so be it - they're an asshole for wanting to do so. we'll still boo our own player or tell them to get up if they are trying to cheat. i wouldn't be able to support my team this passionately if we had to resort to cheating like gerrard did to win trophies. There's no sence of pride in that at all, we'll always do thing the everton way and victory will always be sweeter

 

[jtl60]

i know you'll get people agreeing with you, but whatever we're going to achieve, we'll do it with dignity. we're everton, nil satis nisi optimum - and this relates to how we play the game as well. we'll worry about setting the standards, if youngsters want to look up to a 7ft diving after a shirt pull then so be it - they're an asshole for wanting to do so. we'll still boo our own player or tell them to get up if they are trying to cheat. i wouldn't be able to support my team this passionately if we had to resort to cheating like gerrard did to win trophies. There's no sence of pride in that at all, we'll always do thing the everton way and victory will always be sweeter

I'd love to agree with you but I just think its been going on so long now that its the norm and things are not going to change and its us that need to change. I don't like it when Jelavic dives, its looks stupid a man of his size tumbling to the floor, but at the same time I hate it when our players don't make the most of situations such as the incident I mentioned at City.

Young referees such as Stuart Atwell only know this kind of football, they probably never saw a Peter Reid or Greame Sharp in battle and never will. What they will see is a man having his shirt pulled and if he falls over it must have been enough to make him fall, and if he doesn't fall it wasn't enough to make him fall.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Yeah but if Pienaar/Arteta isn't then neither is Fellaini/Dzeko which for that very reason doesn't go on the list... it either is a pen for both in which case we missed a pen shout and the Dzeko one was correct, or it isn't in which case the Arteta one was correct and the Dzeko one wasn't. Neither option helps us when both decisions went against us.
Which others are you thinking mate? Norwich is perhaps debatable as it was a soft free kick to concede but he does touch him. .

That pretty much sums it up, for me.

Two final points. If the contact Benteke made was insufficient to consistute a foul, and Coates similar climb on Jagielka, how could Baines comparatively light touch on the Norwich player be a foul?

And Tubey, I don't think any of us are saying that Everton are being targetted, simply that we have had a lot of poor decisions
this season. There have been a lot of bad decisions in many other matches, but we're talking about Everton here.

Are you guys actually reading what i'm saying?

Just because one ref in a game views 1 incident a certain way doesn't mean that a different ref in a different game will view a similar incident the same way.

Things like corners are actual definitive decisions, you award it if it came off the defender last (unless you make a mistake and think it came off the attacker) but you are giving a decision on an actual fact : it touched the defender last so therefor is a corner.

Other fouls are not so straight forward, the Pienaar/Arteta one is simply an opinion as to whether Arteta actually broke the laws of the game when challenging Pienaar or if it was just two players tussling for the ball, and even if he did a referee will not have the same view of it as we do on tv making it much easier for us to see everything that happened rathee than only having 1 view.

The Fellaini/Dzeko thing was a clear pull back in front of the ref, much easier to see and award in a crowded penalty area than trying to decide which one of about 10 players pushing and shoving each other was actually a foul.

I'm not saying decisions haven't gone against us this season : they have and as an Evertonian it sucks. However i understand why, for the most part its simply bad luck, very few if any have been actual definitely wrong decisions, and those that have its clearly understandable if you take off your blue tinted glasses why they went against us.

 

[Tree13]

With regard to your reponse above to my comment 'Words fail me', I was referring to your expressed opinion that Everton 'played poorly' against Fulham. Do you really think so?

Fulham were poor.
The ref was praised by more than one poster in the match thread for having a good game. I share that opinion.
We created something like 20 chances but only scored twice.
We conceded an equaliser in the 89th(?) minute.
We did not get a win.

That for me, tied in with the reasonable expectation that Fulham are at best a top-ten team, equals a poor performance. We were good in some areas but noticeably not in scoring goals and avoiding conceding them - these are two BIG parts of the game and therefore I think that when we get them wrong our performance is at best incomplete. We have played better in some games and worse in others, but I feel drawing 2-2 with a poor Fulham side (when the ref is acknowledged not to have made any significant mistakes) can be described as performing poorly. We played some incisive attacking football which was very entertaining to watch, but there's a scoreboard at every game.

 

[Tree13]

I don't understand your seeming desperation to both to blame our players, refuse to accept a good performance that didn't get the result it deserved and your reluctance to accept that we have had poor ref decisions, to the point that you have claimed that saying it was a poor refereeing decision that shouldn't of been which lead to the goal, and not slating the players for a match in which we were the better team against Norwich, was 'a total betrayal of the history and standards that this club has built over the decades'.
It isn't.. truly.. it just isn't. Its pointing out actual facts.
Seriously.. we've lost a lot of points through decisions.. Its a fact. I know I keep telling you... but it really is.
Yes poor finishing has cost us, I doubt anyone would disagree, and so has slack defending, but so have the ref's decisions and I don't care whether it was the sun in their eyes, they fell asleep, they were immense all game but judged the big decision wrong, they were deceived or whether it was entirely impossible to see it... Its still a wrong decision that's changed the game.
But not a bad decision.. 13 or 14 major game changers in as many games, that's a lot even to the man who's trying to shut his eyes tightest and refuse to see.

It's abundantly clear you don't understand. You've quoted me saying:

for the umpteenth time YES we have got the rough end of an unusually large number of poor calls in several games, and there is no sign of things "balancing out", BUT EQUALLY we have underperformed in several games too, mostly against "lesser" opposition; in SOME of those games the ref has been poor but in others he's been fine. However in the games were we've NOT got the results, most of them have seen us play poorly.

and then asked why I am reluctant to accept we've had poor ref decisions. 13 or 14 major game changers (all of which I have agreed were poor, bar the free kick in the norwich game) that you claim I'm trying to refuse to see.

As I said: it's abundantly clear you don't understand. I am saying that we have had some very poor ref decisions, but that doesn't mean we can ignore poor performances. You appear to be saying that the moment a ref screws up, we can ignore any poor play by our team.