The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Naiskill]

Has anybody seen this [Poor language removed]? How dumb do these people think we are?

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Has anybody seen this [Poor language removed]? How dumb do these people think we are?

You'll see a lot of that sort of thing soon, not looking forward to it.

 

[EFCNIK]

I wish the conservatives would just say look 'we over exaggerate our successes and pretty much lie about the future, but the alternative is labour, lesser of two evils? You know you want to'. I'd have more respect for them.

 

[Jxg]

You'll see a lot of that sort of thing soon, not looking forward to it.

Yeah it's gonna suck

 

[Joey66]

Has anybody seen this [Poor language removed]? How dumb do these people think we are?

You'll see a lot of that sort of thing soon, not looking forward to it.

On that poster they claim to have halved the deficit - they can not work out basic maths as it has only been reduced by a third - they forget to mention Austerity cuts, and quantise easing on a vast scale, and most of the new employment are ZEro hour contracts, and Part time work - Tory propaganda at its worst !!

 

[Brennan]

On that poster they claim to have halved the deficit - they can not work out basic maths as it has only been reduced by a third - they forget to mention Austerity cuts, and quantise easing on a vast scale, and most of the new employment are ZEro hour contracts, and Part time work - Tory propaganda at its worst !!

All parties use propaganda.

 

[chicoazul]

Anyone voting the Tories is a massive, massive tit.

votes Tory*

 

[Mrk]

On that poster they claim to have halved the deficit - they can not work out basic maths as it has only been reduced by a third - they forget to mention Austerity cuts, and quantise easing on a vast scale, and most of the new employment are ZEro hour contracts, and Part time work - Tory propaganda at its worst !!

If you measure the deficit as a % of GDP (as is quite common), it has been halved. Propaganda? No. Misleading? Slightly.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I thought this was quite apt from the RSA

http://www.rsablogs.org.uk/2015/adam-lent/political-stupidity-rise-countered/

Maybe I am over-reacting but the second half of 2014 seemed to mark a growing boldness on the part of the politically ignorant to speak openly. And a growing willingness on the part of others to listen to them. It’s only a recent trend but such trends, in my view, should be strangled at birth. So here’s my contribution to the throttling.

Three examples over the last few weeks seem to stand out.

Firstly, there was the publication of Russell Brand’s book Revolution in October. Michael Moynihan over at The Daily Beast did a good job of revealing the book’s deep ignorance. This includes the notion that Mikhail Gorbachev did a deal with the West to let Germany join NATO, that George Orwell was a fan of communist collectivisation and that the United States has made clear its terror of “third world” technology. Revolution has sold in its tens of thousands and Brand now seems to be accepted as a worthwhile commentator on political issues if his recent appearances on serious programmes such as Newsnight and Question Time are anything to go by.

Then came Nigel Farage’s comment in November that the UK’s “open door” immigration policy was a major cause of traffic congestion. I make no comment on UKIP itself and the policies Mr. Farage promotes but this is a suggestion devoid of any evidence to back it up and which no-one who understands transport issues in the UK would take seriously. What is striking though is the fact that Nigel Farage clearly feels under no popular pressure to pass off his comment as a joke nor apologise for it. Indeed, I suspect he is convinced that such comments actually appeal to his electoral base.

Curtis sows confusion

I probably could have passed those two events off as a coincidence but then a short film by the documentary maker, Adam Curtis, appeared on a BBC2 programme called Screenwipe over the Christmas break. Curtis’s film is now on You Tube and has already been viewed nearly 120,000 times in the last four days. Screenwipe itself is written and presented by the usually intelligent Charlie Brooker. And the film has even won endorsement on Twitter from the respected journalist and broadcaster Jon Snow.

Curtis claims that governments are using new techniques to confuse their populations about current events in order to keep them docile. The arguments it uses to sustain this claim rely entirely on the assumption that the audience is politically ignorant. Either that or Adam Curtis is genuinely politically ignorant himself.

For example, the film claims that no-one knows whether the war in Afghanistan was a victory or a defeat; that we are told President Assad is evil but now bomb his enemies thus keeping him in power; and that while the Government is taking billions out of the economy through public spending cuts, it is simultaneously pumping billions into the economy through quantitative easing (QE). All of these developments, the film implies, have been made deliberately bewildering to confuse whole populations.

Anyone who has taken a reasonably close interest in political and economic debate over the last few years will know that this is baloney*. No-one knows whether the war in Afghanistan is a victory or a defeat because there simply is no clear military or political outcome just as has been the case in numerous wars throughout human history. The possibility that taking on ISIS may actually bolster Assad’s position has been a much debated concern since the bombing operation started and reflects the difficult compromises that are very often made in foreign affairs. Curtis might recall, for example, the military alliance the West forged with Stalin to defeat the more immediate threat of Hitler.

And it is an explicitly stated policy of the Coalition to cut public spending while expecting the Bank of England (not the Government as Curtis states) to maintain its policy of QE. It is an approach very widely debated by economists and others: some agree and some don’t but, right or wrong, there is a clear rationale for the policy. It is most definitely not a deliberate ploy to confuse people.

Who’s really doing the duping?

There are two reasons why we should hope these examples of political ignorance are just a blip and that they do not presage a wider acceptance of unfounded and wildly inaccurate claims in the public sphere during 2015.

Firstly, they degrade public debate misinforming the population about the causes of the problems they face and the likely solutions. Traffic congestion is a pain in the neck (tell me about it!) but cutting immigration really won’t make it any better. Inequality is a troubling challenge but the workers’ states of the past which Russell Brand seems to admire brought with it just the sort of popular docility (not to mention horrendous crimes against humanity) that Brand condemns in Western populations.

More worryingly, however, such ignorance always seems to shade sooner or later into an acceptance of conspiracy theory. Brand, for example, has made it clear that he is “open minded” about who carried out the 9/11 attack. While Curtis seems determined to cook up a whole new conspiracy theory.

The link between political ignorance and conspiracy theory is obvious. Because the evidence and rationale for such conspiracies is so threadbare, their acceptance relies on a culture in which reliance on genuine evidence and understanding as a basis for political assertion is not taken seriously.

The result, ironically, is that it is the purveyors of conspiracy theories who are really doing their best to dupe the masses. As Moises Naim has eloquently argued (using real evidence!) governments, the media and corporations are actually less powerful now than they have been in decades.

The opportunities for individuals to inform themselves, organise and work for change has been massively enhanced in the last forty or so years by a popular focus on creativity and autonomy and by new technologies. As we argue here at the RSA, these opportunities need to be seized by as many people as possible as the best route to solving the big problems we undoubtedly face. Ignorance and conspiracy undermines this by pretending that our problems can be solved simply by unmasking and destroying the malign cabals behind those problems rather than doing the much harder, messier work of solving those problems ourselves.

One only needs to look to Russia or the Arab world to see how widespread acceptance of conspiracy theories based on ignorance of history and the way politics and economics really works can utterly corrupt public debate, spread docility and, ironically, hand power to genuinely malign and anti-democratic forces.

So here’s hoping the trend for political ignorance does not continue into 2015. It is, after all, an election year that will inevitably set the tone until 2020 and I’d hate to spend the next five years hearing how Mark Carney is a secret member of the Illuminati using secret psychological theories to sow popular confusion through the evil force that is monetary policy.

 

[degsy]

Russell Brand = Bell
Politicians = Bells
just the ring tone is different, all bells.

 

[Joey66]

If you measure the deficit as a % of GDP (as is quite common), it has been halved. Propaganda? No. Misleading? Slightly.

Lied too yes as the debt is now 17 trillion - debt higher than under Labour - also the coalition have borrowed far more than the last labour Government did - The world banks went into meltdown so the Tories blame Labour - then there is the quantitative easing for every £1 we spent they have minted 24 pound coins - yes they really do know how to run the economy - cutting the police forces, and major services picking on the disabled, and supporting the rich with tax breaks - typical Tories!
Cameron makes Thatcher quite decent!!!!! workfare has been introduced via the back door employment is falling yet Food banks are growing in vast numbers - just need the soup kitchens soon to keep up with their traditions of Tory dogma!
People who work need benefits and he has cut these too!

 

[Mrk]

Lied too yes as the debt is now 17 trillion - debt higher than under Labour - also the coalition have borrowed far more than the last labour Government did - The world banks went into meltdown so the Tories blame Labour - then there is the quantitative easing for every £1 we spent they have minted 24 pound coins - yes they really do know how to run the economy - cutting the police forces, and major services picking on the disabled, and supporting the rich with tax breaks - typical Tories!
Cameron makes Thatcher quite decent!!!!! workfare has been introduced via the back door employment is falling yet Food banks are growing in vast numbers - just need the soup kitchens soon to keep up with their traditions of Tory dogma!
People who work need benefits and he has cut these too!

Of course the debt is higher, we have a deficit. For all the failings of the Tory party (and there are many), I don't think they've ever claimed to have cut the national debt, so you can't accuse them of lying about that.

And yes, of course they have borrowed more because we have a deficit of around £90 billion a year. The only way for the Tories to borrow less than Labour did would have been to cut the whole £150 billion deficit in one year, which would have resulted in mass unemployment and god knows what else - if you're going to accuse them of borrowing more, than I assume that's something you'd be able to stomach?

Quantitative easing is bizarre and (I think) redundant, but it isn't controlled by the government, it's controlled by the BoE.

The police force has been cut, and crime has continued to fall - no complaints from me.

Major services have been cut, but they've actually been cut at a slower rate than Alastair Darling set out in his budget of 2010, which is why we still have a huge deficit. So hardly Tory ideological cuts when Labour initially planned to make faster cuts...

The rich have had tax breaks (which depending on your leanings can be seen as a good or bad thing), but there have been tax breaks for lower/middle earners too, and they were much more costly.

Workfare has hardly been a secret - some people find it beneficial, some people don't. I'm ambivalent.

Employment isn't falling - I've no idea where you got that statistic from, care to share?

Food banks are growing and more people are using them (for many reasons), but that is definitely a fair criticism.

In work benefits have been cut, but so have taxes - a bit of giving with one hand and taking with the other.

I love reading a good rant, and there are many things to rant about, this government have a far from perfect record on many things, but at least try and base your rant on facts.

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Important that people understand that debt and deficit are not the same thing.

 

[Joey66]

Of course the debt is higher, we have a deficit. For all the failings of the Tory party (and there are many), I don't think they've ever claimed to have cut the national debt, so you can't accuse them of lying about that.

And yes, of course they have borrowed more because we have a deficit of around £90 billion a year. The only way for the Tories to borrow less than Labour did would have been to cut the whole £150 billion deficit in one year, which would have resulted in mass unemployment and god knows what else - if you're going to accuse them of borrowing more, than I assume that's something you'd be able to stomach?

Quantitative easing is bizarre and (I think) redundant, but it isn't controlled by the government, it's controlled by the BoE.

The police force has been cut, and crime has continued to fall - no complaints from me.

Major services have been cut, but they've actually been cut at a slower rate than Alastair Darling set out in his budget of 2010, which is why we still have a huge deficit. So hardly Tory ideological cuts when Labour initially planned to make faster cuts...

The rich have had tax breaks (which depending on your leanings can be seen as a good or bad thing), but there have been tax breaks for lower/middle earners too, and they were much more costly.

Workfare has hardly been a secret - some people find it beneficial, some people don't. I'm ambivalent.

Employment isn't falling - I've no idea where you got that statistic from, care to share?

Food banks are growing and more people are using them (for many reasons), but that is definitely a fair criticism.

In work benefits have been cut, but so have taxes - a bit of giving with one hand and taking with the other.

I love reading a good rant, and there are many things to rant about, this government have a far from perfect record on many things, but at least try and base your rant on facts.

Unemployment is falling, I missed the UN - all your other explanations are typical Tory Dogma - That was not a rant by me, just the propaganda this Government have put out recently as the election looms - as for the BOE using the QE do you not think Gideon Osborne has any say?

The Tories have not fixed the economy if UNemployment is reduced why have tax revenues dropped??? I will tell you - its because they are all low paid jobs or workfare! also the richest in society are paying less tax and avoiding tax payment! promises of curbing this could fetch in 80 billion never achieved or likely to be under their friends!

30 billion of more cuts by the Tories if they get back in - we may have to have one recognised police force! as for crime falling yes since the pvc doors locking systems burglaries have dropped - when do you see a Bobby on the beat???

This Government have topped down the NHS which DC stated he would not do they promised us on Europe negotiations regarding immigration target missed by 250,000. It is not been managed -no one is counted in or out Border police CUT they have broken every promise!

They go from one crisis to another - any thing which has been done like raising the tax allowance is a LIB Dem policy not theirs!

David Cameron is in a split party - alternatives any one bar them!

 

[peteblue]

How any sane person would want Ed Miliband and Ed Balls as Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Uk is beyond the realms of rational thought..........ffs I wouldn't let them run a school tuck shop with any confidence.......