The downfall of the All Blacks

[degsy]

..Or how PC wrecked the AB's.
Being a total football person you couldn't pay me to watch rugby, Bill McClaren 's long tenure on the box notwithstanding, he did, finally, get through to me some of the rules...'it's out on the foool' (full). Mainly I couldn't see why, when you got the ball, you booted it to the opposition and then had to fight some really big blokes to get it back, whats that all about then??

But back in late 50's and early 60's on a cold winters day, with the blues away and the paper round money nowhere near enough, on went Grandstand and it's iconic theme and going even further back Sports view with it's even more Iconic de dum dee dum dee diddlee dum.

But I'd watch the All Blacks, they were special, they were the King Kong, the Cassius Clay(as he was in those days) the Brazil.

So when they won the Rugby World Cup in 1987, well it was only to be expected, it was the natural order of things.

But look at their record, then and in subsequent comps.

Winners; beaten finalists;well nobody can win all the time. beaten finalists; food poisoning/dirty dealings???. beaten in the semi's; well it's the french, you can never tell with them; beaten in the semi's, never right off the ausssies, and well the coach wasn't all that hot, never liked him. Now beaten in the quarters, mega bucks spent, basically been in camp for 6mths preparing and training, shock horror, so what went wrong.

Well the talkback radio has been red hot and has gone mostly one of two ways.

1)Stop picking on the lads,they are OUR team, they didn't go out to lose, they did their best and we support them through thick and thin, infact, anyone who has a go, is well, unpatriotic...that must ring a few bells re. our own situation

We are now getting to the nitty gritty (about time you might say, but the backgroung has to be laid)

The players and staff flew in to Christchurch (the local equiv. of east midlands) citing airline timetables etc. (guilt more like)

And 3000 ppl were there and cheered 'our gallant lads' to the echo FFS!

Herein lies the problem, (again, I feel echos of our own situation ) It isn't that mediocrity is encouraged, but it is unconciously accepted, because winning and after all, there can only be one winner, thus making everybody else LOSERS!!, you didn't lose, you just didn't win, but you tried, you took part.

Kids don't seem to take pass and fail exams any more, they do modules, gain 'credits' and self assessment and class work counts towards your grade.

Then we come to what some brave people call the Browning of New Zealand Rugby. Over the last 30 yrs there has been a massive (for here )influx of Pacific Islanders. A veritable host of Jonah Lomu's and Jerry Collinses. These likeable and laid back people have all gone through a school system that has brainwashed them and everybody else in it to believe that nobody has to try because winning doesn't matter. It's about being the best person you can be.

Bollocks!! (end of rant)

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not so sure it's that as much as the belief that they were going to coast it. Firstly they've dominated rugby pretty much since the last World Cup, thrashing all before them in wonderful style.

Secondly, have a look at the number of players that are coming to Europe to play club rugby this season. It's almost as though there was this belief that they'd roll over everyone on the way to a glorious WC win and then head to Europe to do the whole Harlem Globetrotter retirement circuit.

They undoubtably play rugby the way it should be played so in that sense I'm sad that they aren't still in the competition, but you have to play ugly sometimes to win and I don't think they've learnt that yet.

 

[atrottel]

Then we come to what some brave people call the Browning of New Zealand Rugby. Over the last 30 yrs there has been a massive (for here )influx of Pacific Islanders. A veritable host of Jonah Lomu's and Jerry Collinses. These likeable and laid back people

Tell that to Tim Cahill, you racist prick.

 

[Dylan]

This was an acceptable post all the way to 'the browning of New Zealand Rugby'

What the hell is that supposed to mean? You know the NATIVE New Zealand people are Polynesian. The Maori tribe have been there much longer than any white man has and as such has every right to play for their country.

This is not a tolerable reason or a tolerable post, and I am afraid this is a quick way to receive the ban-hammer.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'm not sure quite what influence it has on the success, or otherwise, of the NZ team but the 1987 side was primarily white and the Pacific Island nations have been pillaged for players in recent years, mostly by New Zealand but also by Australia as well.

If anything I think the influx of Pacific Island players into the game has really helped it as a spectacle as previously sides played the traditional northern hemisphere style of 10 man rugby.

The Pacific Islanders however are routed in sevens rugby and are therefore exceptional with ball in hand, not to mention very physical. When you go through the NZ team, players like Muliaina (Samoa), Rokocoko (Fiji), Sivivatu (Fiji), Toeava (Samoa), Collins (Samoa), Masoe (Samoa), So'oialo (Samoa) are not only amongst the best in the side but certainly amongst the more exciting players. With the likes of Fiji doing so well in this years competition hopefully this regular looting of players from these islands will cease.

Indeed when you look through those players you would have to conclude that Samoa would have a better team than New Zealand if they played for the country of their birth.

 

[micknick]

Just to play devils advocate he does say

'Some brave people call it the browning of New Zealand rugby'

This seemed a good post that was well written and had an educated feel about it. Let me ask you one thing if stating the above sentence is racist- what about people calling each other gay in every other post- is that not homophobic?

 

[chicoazul]

Mincer.

 

[SuitsBlue]

what is ''an absolute horlicks'' ?

 

[monty]

Good post, bad post, he's gone. There were elements of racism in that opener, intended or not he should have been quietly warned and if it happened again barred. Like Mick I think it was not meant to be overtly racist although that is how it came across. If it wasn't meant as such then a blue looking for a cyber home has been cast adrift and for that I'm concerned

 

[Rob]

Tell that to Tim Cahill, you racist prick.

and Dylan you are both way out of order and shot the man down for something he didn't even say.

I suggest you read the post this time and apologise.

Micknick, spot on as usual mate

 

[degsy]

I knew it wouldn't take long

For people to start off with the 'R' word.

Think about it, if, every time a discussion that even remotely touches on anything, for want of a better word 'coloured' leads some bright spark who thinks he knows what is really going on in a country halfway round the world to jump in with a MC Hammer 'Don't touch that' and play the racist veto, free and OPEN debate is censored, nothing is done and ignorance continues unabated.

Alf Garnett's creator Johnny Speight brought Racism and a lot of other isms in to the public arena, by poking fun at the absurdities and inconsistancies.

For those who can stomach proper joined up adult debate I will endevour to further expand my point, which was shorter than I would have liked due to time pressures at my end ( if you don't come and eat this dinner I'll pull the plug on the computer and give your dinner to the dog)

The Phrase 'The browning of New Zealand rugby' is not mine, the credit belongs to a radio commentator, not some Alan Bleasdale-esque shock jock, but the top man on the top station, one Murray Deaker. I havn't done so, I don't actually need to, coz I hear what he has to say most weekends, but anybody keen enough to find out more facts could no doubt google him and see what comes up, or alternately put your hands over your eyes and shout racist, racist until the world goes away.

News flash: most of us to some degree or another (if we are honest with ourselves) have some racist tendencies. Did you laugh at Borat? Stan Boardman? any Irish jokes??.

Do we go off and scource supplies of zykon B...No

Do we start massive ethnic cleansing programs ..No

Right, Back to the discussion.
Games at the level of the World Cup are won and lost by inches, the odd percent,or lack of effort, the unsighted Reff, the forward pass.
The All Blacks attempt turned into a train wreck, or, to stretch the example, an air crash.
With air crashes (or train wrecks) there are usually multiple causes, no one cause sufficient on it's own, but added up, tip the balance.

In no particular order;

The French got it right, as always, the devil is in the detail. The hoohar over the shirts, we are playing the might All Blacks, so make them play in Grey: done, +1% to the frogs(or is that racist?)
Respect the Haka but don't be over-awed by it, front up to it, stand up to it; done, +1%
Don't call them the All Blacks, take away the mystique, call them New Zealand:done, +1%

This leads on to the factors that apply to the New Zealanders:

The very name the All Blacks has now taken on a whole identity of it's own. It used to mean The New Zealand Rugby team. Now it's a designer brand. It won't be long before the are being touted as..The Addidas All Blacks.

Now to the PC aspects, there are no major knockout comps in NZ rugby it is all round robin, which is fine for Badminton and Ladies doubles down at the tennis club (sex-ism and elete-ism warning)...but it doesn't really matter, deep down, if you lose, coz you get to play again next week.
Even in the Aussie RL comp. when it gets to the playoffs, it isn't proper knockout, you can lose your quarter final and have a 'life'if you finish in the top 4.
The final extra effort required to win and go through or lose and go out is not in the fore-brain'

Even the premier domestic comp is a franchise, no true local invovement.
You are playing for the contract, the way out of the council estate and the All blacks is just a bigger contract.

These hyphenated New Zealanders, be they Samoan, Tongan, Fijian (native or Indian) Maori, Croatian, Sri Lanken, Somali, Irish (paddies day goes off huge ) etc. etc. are all continually told to rejoice in their diversity and Multiculturism.
You are hard put to find a united New Zealand national identity.
As a result we have a seriously average national anthem, sung in 2 languages, which means all things, or not, to all people and lacks that 1% wow factor that say the French one and ours has.-1% to NZ

30 yrs of the worst kind of one size fits all state sponsored educational brainwashing, don't you dare be a tall poppy and traumatise the others in their mediocrity with your successes.
Don't tell me you havn't seen the dumbing down of the A levels, it's all part of the same problem.

The over controlling, feminist, fabian, socialist, political system, (mmp) similar to, but in practice, worse than the wishy washy German one, which, if anyone remembers was designed to prevent any one party (Nazi's) from ever gaining power again. This system gives much too much say to fringe parties and the main party has to do deals(and off the wall ones at that) to keep in power.
Yes I hear you say, you would say that, you are to the far right of Attila the Hun
Au contraire comrade, I am one of those endangered groups, White, married, (I can't even say I am middle-aged now...well think about it?? how many people do you know who are 118) clocking on workers, you know, what 'old labour' used to be all about, but still, when it comes down to it 'Conservative' with a small 'c'...but enough about me back to the thread.

This and preceeding Governments of various stripes have all been about restriction and thus control. The sort of politicians that promise to build you a 'social engineered' bridge where the isn't even a river.

Then we come to the thing that upsets some, leading to the use of the 'R' word...culture

The pacific Island and Maori cultures are Ageist and Male dominated and a youngster will not and can not speak out against the status quo as laid down by the elders of the tribe, until they have gained, through age and more increasingly money and power, which tends to come with age: aka 'MANA

So what do we have?? on the one hand an immigrant society that frowns upon speaking out of turn.
A PC view that nobody dare be better than anybody else.
A control freak ex headmaster coach, with a poor plan A and no plan B....Ring any bells closer to home???.
A game that appoints a captain first then picks the team.
This same capt. is not allowed and may not be capable if he was, due to the whole,education system drummed in to him... my way or the highway says coach, its my job on the line as well, so do as you are told or back to the dole queue for you.

Now do you have an idea why they lost??

You choice... accept it...accept parts...or call me a racist for telling it how I see it.
I'm on the ground here, walk a mile in my shoes.
If you think that me saying it's so doesn't automatically make it so, well fair enough....but that also applies to you.
Thank you and good night where ever you are.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Vote Ron Paul

 

[atrottel]

Rob, no, I will not apologise for calling the poster a racist (although I will for calling him or her a prick).

As I said to Monty in a private message, what I was objecting to was that one of the main reasons that the All Blacks were a worse team was because of an increased number of non-white New Zealanders of Pacific Island heritage in their team. That is a racist remark and I don't consider it has any place here (or anywhere else in an intelligent society). Some of you obviously do.

I hope you find it enjoyable here, degsy. I did for a long while.

 

[atrottel]

And for people like Rob who believe I didn't read or understand what was written, why don't we have a look at the offending passage:

Then we come to what some brave people call the Browning of New Zealand Rugby. Over the last 30 yrs there has been a massive (for here )influx of Pacific Islanders. A veritable host of Jonah Lomu's and Jerry Collinses. These likeable and laid back people have all gone through a school system that has brainwashed them and everybody else in it to believe that nobody has to try because winning doesn't matter.

So:

Then we come to what some brave people call the Browning of New Zealand Rugby.

We could have said any number of things here. Could have said "some people" but instead called them "some brave people" for speaking out. Could have complained about modern society as in the rest of the post. But instead picked on one particular thing, and that was skin colour.

Over the last 30 yrs there has been a massive (for here )influx of Pacific Islanders.

Now here we are complaining about immigration to New Zealand. Not of English or Scots or Aussies or white South Africans, mind. But people coming from the Pacific Islands, who, we have already established, are a different colour.

These likeable and laid back people have all gone through a school system that has brainwashed them and everybody else in it to believe that nobody has to try because winning doesn't matter.

But surely if everybody has gone through the school system, then the school system has had an effect on everybody? Ah, I see, it's had an especial effect on those Pacific Islanders because they are "likeable and laid back" unlike the white students. Bit like the Africans really, who are "friendly but not too bright" or the Irish, who are "good for the craic but a bit lazy" or any other weasel words that racists like to dress up their views with. Of course, there are stereotypes that are used in humour but the context is everything, and in this case those stereotypes were used in the context of a serious rant about the decline of society and the sporting heroes of a nation.

The point at which it really makes me wonder is the fact that the views expressed are patently complete bollocks, as Bruce quite competently illustrated in his less controversial posts. And, of course, the fact that our very own "Pacific Islander" is the one player that most of us have been praying gets back to fitness so that he can add his fire and his drive to the midfield.

Micknick, if the post had been about gay marriage affecting the motivation of the All Blacks then it would have been laughed off the forum. It makes me wonder why people feel it necessary to have a "serious discussion" about equally laughable propositions without treating them in the same way.

 

[micknick]

Attrotel- calling someone a racist prick is absolutely foul in my eyes. Agressive racism is lowest of the low, this guy used a sentence - 'some people call it'- he didnt say he did.

Secondly- serious debate is something that has been missing from this forum. I like having a laugh as much as the next person but I also like to talk seriously about stuff as well. We had it on TW with frequent inputs from the regular posters.

Take that as you like.