The Everton Board Thread 2014/15

[Steve Wigan]

I'm sorry, but I just find it amusing that you of all people - who has strained every fibre to make the debate as toxic as possible between fans - is now leading the charge for unity.

Dave, no ones listening to you...theres a line been drawn in the sand...which side of the line are you on?

 

[magicjuan]

MJ...I think you're starting from the wrong point. I sense your frustration but any anti establishment group is going to have difficulty attracting 'moderates' or people with an opposing view. Points need to be raised with the club, but first of all we need to work very hard to make sure that any approach to the club is not viewed with suspicion by the club , and that there is serious forward thinking intent and not just another opportunity on the part of supporters to 'have a bash' at the board. This means drawing a heavy line in the sand and starting afresh. The hardest part will be getting supporters with different points of view to respect opposite views, state their case, and respect the opposite case. Thats the hard part. Along side that the right people should formulate a strategy to open dialogue with the club, sensibly and with mutual respect. If you can't get to talk to the club in a reasonable manner, you'll never get answers to your questions. It should also be accepted that there will be no accusations, simply questions, and no loaded questions. I for one would have no time for anyone who threw any criminal/ civil accusations at the club without the appropriate evidence. Do that, and you can forget any dialogue with the club, and that is what we want, initially.

All of the above could apply to the club Steve. At one point the threat of litigation had Japanese dentists quakng. Random accusations showed a siege mentality that hasn't left, it my be painted in different ways but the cloak and dagger stuff remains.

I think it would be harder to get the club leopards to change pots than supporters.

The strategy has to start with clarity rom the club, no hiding behind clauses etc, but displaying ambition instead of failed piecemeal objectives and mixed messages. Sticking a big box on the car park, which failed in such an amteurish manner, embarrasingly, doesn't tally with the desire to leave the old lady does it? Mny examples of that exist.

The lifelong brand loyalty, which big Bill professes he has, has been played on too much now as part of the strategy by the club, it's actually well passed the point of taking the pi$$.

 

[magicjuan]

I personally think that the forums are the weakest way to go about this, because comments are neccessarily random, from random posters, and may deliberately or otherwise hinder the very situation we are trying to create, that is a front that represents a cross section of supporters opinion, but wants sensible and as transperent as possible dialogue with the club on various matters. Otherwise, I agree with you about the line in the sand.

The 'actual' lines of communication between the two sides are sham at present

 

[Steve Wigan]

All of the above could apply to the club Steve. At one point the threat of litigation had Japanese dentists quakng. Random accusations showed a siege mentality that hasn't left, it my be painted in different ways but the cloak and dagger stuff remains.

I think it would be harder to get the club leopards to change pots than supporters.

The strategy has to start with clarity rom the club, no hiding behind clauses etc, but displaying ambition instead of failed piecemeal objectives and mixed messages. Sticking a big box on the car park, which failed in such an amteurish manner, embarrasingly, doesn't tally with the desire to leave the old lady does it? Mny examples of that exist.

The lifelong brand loyalty, which big Bill professes he has, has been played on too much now as part of the strategy by the club, it's actually well passed the point of taking the pi$$.

As I said, its an opinion born out of frustration, and I can see that. But we both know that the club tell us as much as they need to tell us, the whole idea of trying to create an atmosphere that encouages dialogue that is not ridden with suspicion on both sides is to get them to tell us a bit more and the only way this can be done. Its not enough to say 'the club should do this, or the club should do that. It requires an intiative on the part of supporters to approach the club in the right way.

 

[Steve Wigan]

The 'actual' lines of communication between the two sides are sham at present

Clearly that is true. That is why a new approach is needed. The current lines of communication are like they are because of suspicion, ignorance and lack of mutual respect.
Its only if supporters take the intiative will lack of respect, suspicion and ignorance cease to be an issue, but the intiative has to be genuine and honest in its aims.

 

[chicoazul]

I think you've hit upon something there Steve, but I'm not sure that it even needs a formal meeting, because we can have that sort of dialogue here!

With the caveat that the discussion starts with a line in the sand. No rehashing of old arguments about KD, happy clappers, Kirkby etc etc ad infinitum and the SOLE aim of the discussion is to reach a consensus on what we as a fan's group want to see at EFC in the future and therefore what we see as needing to change to facilitate the end goal.

All that must not be swept under the carpet though. It's the reason why so many blues are deeply unhappy at Everton being mishandled and lied to for a ridiculous amount of time. The lads who I go the game with are very partisan towards board and would be frustrated with a soft approach to engagement with the club.

 

[chicoazul]

The 'actual' lines of communication between the two sides are sham at present

I agree. And if we want real pressure on the board then we need to not be wrote off as a small percentage of trouble makers as they currently try and slur against those opposing them.

 

[magicjuan]

As I said, its an opinion born out of frustration, and I can see that. But we both know that the club tell us as much as they need to tell us, the whole idea of trying to create an atmosphere that encouages dialogue that is not ridden with suspicion on both sides is to get them to tell us a bit more and the only way this can be done. Its not enough to say 'the club should do this, or the club should do that. It requires an intiative on the part of supporters to approach the club in the right way.

Perhaps so, but this is almost in Palestine/Israel territory now.
As a business element it needs trust on behalf of its customers, I would suggest that a majority of Evertonians think that there is at least 'something amiss' in the management of the club and its progression.
The club say otherwise. They hold the cards and are happy to string along, but for what reason? Which actual direction are they heading?
Talk of 24/7 searches for many years, talking to 'investors', due diligence with bedsit land, all of these and more don't instil confidence, so it is understandable on the supporters side to be more than cautious and lacking trust and faith in demonstrably untrustworthy sources.

Bill has his bubble, his Camelot, but those he employs do him no favours in both performance and attitude, anyone not towing the party line is ousted quickly, seems Camelot is almost in smithereens.

 

[Chang Elephant]

Would it be possible to administer a truth serum at the meeting to all parties, just to ensure honest dialogue, or is there a danger that Bill and Robert's bodies would suffer some sort of lasting damage or anaphylactic shock etc ?

 

[Steve Wigan]

Its inevitable that we'll get the same old, same old reactions from many, when a significant change in approach is being attempted, and in fact essential if there is to be a chance of progress. I'm leaving this thread until later today, to give others an opportunity to have their say, but will return after my evening meal (not lamb tonight) and before I 'm out for the evening. So for the next few hours, don't just think I'm ignoring you, because I am!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

All that must not be swept under the carpet though. It's the reason why so many blues are deeply unhappy at Everton being mishandled and lied to for a ridiculous amount of time. The lads who I go the game with are very partisan towards board and would be frustrated with a soft approach to engagement with the club.

The opposite confrontational approach achieved nothing though mate. Only a fool does the same thing over and over and expects a different outcome.

Everyone who has a view on the club has got to their current stand point because of numerous different factors over varying lengths of time. Whilst the past should not be forgotten, merely rehashing it and going over stale old ground, would be the wrong starting point imo. As there's a spectrum of views on the 'rights and wrongs' of all of it and we end up debating those points yet again, when ultimately they now mean nothing, apart from being a method of learning for future decision making.

 

[RaleighBlue]

I agree. And if we want real pressure on the board then we need to not be wrote off as a small percentage of trouble makers as they currently try and slur against those opposing them.

But to do that it's vital that the supporters cannot be slurred. We have to act as the bigger party, otherwise the board will get defensive and the movement is more likely to be written off as an extremist group by the 'moderates' (silent majority may be better).

So we need to engage the board honestly, not by wiping out the past necessarily, but also not by focusing on the past. If the discussion on a new ground is the topic at hand, of course the past is free realm to speak of what has happened and why the supporters may be mistrustful of the board, but not every topic is about the ground, nor is it about OOC, or selling the club, yet it seems every discussion that involves the board includes all of those topics.

I think the starting point must be a soft approach, because then the board cannot write us off without turning the majority against them. If they do write off a soft approach, then a group has a clear and current reason to engage more confrontationally.

 

[SerenityNigh]

Did we ever get to the bottom of what the owners are doing with all the cash coming in and that Other Operating Costs stuff? What's that being spent on?

Seems like roughly half the people here at GOT suspect it's being spent on normal operating costs of running a football club and roughly the other half seem to suspect it's a dark pool of funds, the use of which is unknown. I'm not sure we have any resolution on this. My suspicion is that if the club gave out a detailed breakdown of other operating costs, arguments would begin over much smaller numbers than are being argued upon now. What exactly are you after--answers to genuine interest, or ammunition for your position? I'm not sure there are any pro-Board/pro-Kenwright people here at GOT, but there is no small number of people that are tired of the view that forces every bit of evidence to fit pre-formed views.

 

[1966efc]

"Obviously, this is all speculation, but I find it both odd and concerning that our turnover is so much less than teams like Spurs and Newcastle."

The Board / chairman / owner are part 1 of the problem. As I said on another thread, it's possible to criticise directors / owners over the past eighty years for falling down on cash investment (or 'donation' to be more accurate) and / or the vision needed to push the club into the top echelon for a sustained period.

Part 2 of the problem is the fanbase. Spurs and Newcastle have larger turn overs for differing reasons ... lots of rich people in London; merchandise buying nutters in the north east together with a bigger stadium / higher attendances. In comparison with other p l clubs, we don't buy that much merchandise and in past seasons - including the great seasons in the eighties - attendances have hovered between meh and bloody poor. Certainly, very little is going to happen to drive the club on till Bill goes and a manic spender with no thoughts of a return on his cash comes in. Hopefully the improved attendances of this season gone and a couple of others in the recent past will be maintained.

 

[RaleighBlue]

"Obviously, this is all speculation, but I find it both odd and concerning that our turnover is so much less than teams like Spurs and Newcastle."

The Board / chairman / owner are part 1 of the problem. As I said on another thread, it's possible to criticise directors / owners over the past eighty years for falling down on cash investment (or 'donation' to be more accurate) and / or the vision needed to push the club into the top echelon for a sustained period.

Part 2 of the problem is the fanbase. Spurs and Newcastle have larger turn overs for differing reasons ... lots of rich people in London; merchandise buying nutters in the north east together with a bigger stadium / higher attendances. In comparison with other p l clubs, we don't buy that much merchandise and in past seasons - including the great seasons in the eighties - attendances have hovered between meh and bloody poor. Certainly, very little is going to happen to drive the club on till Bill goes and a manic spender with no thoughts of a return on his cash comes in. Hopefully the improved attendances of this season gone and a couple of others in the recent past will be maintained.

This was historically not a very solvable problem as the fanbase was directly drawn from Liverpool and the surrounding areas. This is no longer true, however, thanks to television and internet. Everton's fanbase can grow into areas that do buy loads of merchandise - it may never help with attendance figures, but attendance income is becoming less and less important when compared to sponsorship, merchandising, and television incomes.

If the board were to focus heavily on growing the clubs overseas, in America, Asia, and Africa, then merchandising and sponsorship deals would begin to bring in far more income than we currently do. The failure on the part of the board to attempt to break into those markets beyond the superficial is a catastrophe that could haunt the club for a very long time if a few things don't go our way.

We are brilliantly poised for these sorts of inroads right now - if the results turn we'll find it much more difficult in the future, not to mention that America in particular is just waking up to the Premier League and hasn't picked its teams yet, if we wait a decade that may no longer be true - we simply must strike while the iron is hot.