The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[Neiler]

Your argument is running on fumes now mate, there's no gas in the tank. You know that simply by improving the preferred business model of growing the commercial side of the club enough funds would be generated season-on-season to operate in a relatively decent way, with a few million to build the squad up over time (in fact, that was the stated aim of the Kenwright/Moyes pact back five years ago - and I dont think the manager wanted that to be reneged on, do you?). The reality is, though - and I know you know this so it shouldn't need restating - the regime in control of EFC have FAILED to bring that commercial development. If after 11 years of proof that they cant increase the organic growth of the business, which can give us a chance to get an edge on our peer group (or the ones we used to think were our peer group but are now running away from us and over the hill and out of sight), I and many others think that's just about enough time for them to have. We are stagnating because of them.

You just dont get and never will.

Some pertenent points there mate, i woudnt disagree with some such as commercial development etc. What i would disagree on is that the buissness has grown sudstantialy during this regimes tenure, that is reflected on the pitch and the establishment of at least fighting for Europe every season - tht is investment made - more importantly with an outcome. You can say Sky Money and the rest, but everyone gets it and while our debt turnover ratio comes down others have shot up. What other clubs do is ridiculous whats the point of signing Darren Bent for a season and a half and then selling him because you cant afford him, there are numerous examples throughout the league - while the focus on here seems to be on who other teams are signing - there are a hell of a lot of players leaveing other clubs, in comparison we are a proper football club - stability is going to be key is this environemnt. We are frustrateingly well managed, we live within our means - but it is the right thing for the club.

Im not against investment per say and i would welcome fresh ideas and a new approach - but there are many risks to investment as i have pointed out all summer and to many examples of it going very badly - that im sure most in this thread wish to ignore. To be honest ive lost an awfull lot of respect for some posters opinions given what they have bigged up in terms of takeovers and investment, i know they are speaking with their heart and not there heads.

Stagnateing as you call it though i agree in a commercial sense (and told you three years ago during the kirkby debate would be the consepuence), nut im of the opinion there is absolutly no interest in investing in Everton. In a footballing sense one of the biggest pluses so far this summer is going to be the continuity and stability of a team - becuase we dont need to sell anyone bar the dead wood in the squad. Im not of the opinion that the squad needs an overhaul, we have a lot of quality and a lot of quality to come through, i think we need two additions max and i know we will make them.

So the fury doesnt doesnt effect me.

The cycle as you call it, of improveing the squad every year is one i see coming to fruition and being competitive for a CL bearth - i genuinely beleive we will have the squad next year to at least be hopefull of having a go for it. City are a marker and the Sheik has spent 1billion at this point for them finishing in CL spots, lets be honest regardless of any investment, or stadium if that is the quantam leap or finance required - it isnt going to happen. Im not a fan of that model as i have said, i agree though we are begging to take the next step, this board is soft to a degree especialy with fans, they could be more cut throat in raiseing captail, but i think your and most of the Ken-is-wrongers, with good intent think with your hearts rather then your heads.

 

[Neiler]

Again i have to say i am in full agreement:

THANK you for the interest in today's column – you can read it by clicking here – I'll try to answer one or two of the comments on here.

Bill Kenwright must go. Easy, isn't it? But then who comes in? Where are the interested parties willing to buy Kenwright's shares? Who takes over from the regime which has elevated Everton from regular relegation scufflers in the late 90s to regular sixth, seventh and eighth placed finishers now?

The article certainly wasn't an attempt at bridge building with the club.

We try to have as healthy a relationship with Everton as possible, but the days when I would visit Bellefield every morning as Everton correspondent have long since passed.


We wrote a series of articles on Everton's finances in February – you can read two of those articles here and here – and were heavily criticised by the club for scaremongering, and criticised by some fans for not going far enough.

We were happy with that outcome because it suggested a balance had been struck.

The truth of the matter is – and I can say this absolutely hand on heart – that I care about Everton Football Club as much as anyone who has posted on here today.

And I have absolutely no compunction about upsetting Bill Kenwright, the board or the players, as previous articles will attest to.

But I cannot see the benefit – for club or newspaper – of starting or even supporting a Kenwright Must

Go campaign in July, before a ball has been kicked in anger, when there is no viable alternative.

The column wasn't intended to be sycophantically supportive of the current regime, as so many of you have concluded, but a counter to the air of pessimism which dominates some websites.

We have asked questions of the board many times in the past and will continue to do so again.

I have asked in our pages in the past why the current board hasn't appointed an independent broker to oversee a sale of the club. I can't keep repeating myself.

What I was trying to do in today's column was to point out that there is an alternative to the doom and gloom which seems to pervade some Evertonians' thinking – in July before a ball has even been kicked pre-season.

I understand why Blues are concerned.

It's immensely frustrating for Evertonians to see their team struggle to raise funds to sign players while across the park Liverpool are collecting central midfielders.

But having witnessed first hand the mess that was generated when a previous Everton chairman sanctioned the spending of funds that the club didn't have, I will not be part of a similar scenario unfolding again.

I'm as frustrated as any fan at not seeing new faces arrive this summer. (But I've also seen it before – when the club couldn't afford to make Terry Curran's loan move permanent in 1983).
And that situation can change very quickly.

Forgive me if I've misjudged the tone of today's article, but I was trying to offer some positivity at a time when there is very little amongst some Evertonians.

Comparisons have been drawn to the piece Chris Bascombe wrote for the News of the World website, hailing that as a blow for the 'people'.

But the truth is that Chris ended that article with the same conclusion I drew. There are no answers until someone shows an interest in buying Everton from the current regime.
Until that situation changes I can see no benefit for Everton Football Club in whipping up or adding to a mood of unrest.

​

 

[TheFinnFan]

/i dont say that it should be done/ ...but i wonder why there hasnt been any protests against B.K, if there seems to be many many fans who are not happy with his way to deal with this club? or has there been any protests, ever? i remember that last season in this forum for example some were shouting things about protests. for me, i tend to trust board. and moyes. but at the same time i hope b.k would do a better job of finding those much needed funds

 

[davek]

Some pertenent points there mate, i woudnt disagree with some such as commercial development etc. What i would disagree on is that the buissness has grown sudstantialy during this regimes tenure, that is reflected on the pitch and the establishment of at least fighting for Europe every season - tht is investment made - more importantly with an outcome. You can say Sky Money and the rest, but everyone gets it and while our debt turnover ratio comes down others have shot up. What other clubs do is ridiculous whats the point of signing Darren Bent for a season and a half and then selling him because you cant afford him, there are numerous examples throughout the league - while the focus on here seems to be on who other teams are signing - there are a hell of a lot of players leaveing other clubs, in comparison we are a proper football club - stability is going to be key is this environemnt. We are frustrateingly well managed, we live within our means - but it is the right thing for the club.

Im not against investment per say and i would welcome fresh ideas and a new approach - but there are many risks to investment as i have pointed out all summer and to many examples of it going very badly - that im sure most in this thread wish to ignore. To be honest ive lost an awfull lot of respect for some posters opinions given what they have bigged up in terms of takeovers and investment, i know they are speaking with their heart and not there heads.

Stagnateing as you call it though i agree in a commercial sense (and told you three years ago during the kirkby debate would be the consepuence), nut im of the opinion there is absolutly no interest in investing in Everton. In a footballing sense one of the biggest pluses so far this summer is going to be the continuity and stability of a team - becuase we dont need to sell anyone bar the dead wood in the squad. Im not of the opinion that the squad needs an overhaul, we have a lot of quality and a lot of quality to come through, i think we need two additions max and i know we will make them.

So the fury doesnt doesnt effect me.

The cycle as you call it, of improveing the squad every year is one i see coming to fruition and being competitive for a CL bearth - i genuinely beleive we will have the squad next year to at least be hopefull of having a go for it. City are a marker and the Sheik has spent 1billion at this point for them finishing in CL spots, lets be honest regardless of any investment, or stadium if that is the quantam leap or finance required - it isnt going to happen. Im not a fan of that model as i have said, i agree though we are begging to take the next step, this board is soft to a degree especialy with fans, they could be more cut throat in raiseing captail, but i think your and most of the Ken-is-wrongers, with good intent think with your hearts rather then your heads.

The debt is enormous. It isn't just that debt of around £40M, it's the burden of the interest repayment on the securitization deal - another £25M to be paid in interest to come. And if you factor in the sale of tangible assets that this regime have made a strategy of (sale of buildings and land) and the outsourcing of goods and services (another strategy they adopted years ago) then you can see how irresponsible this lot have been.

The board have been sweating the club rather than growing it. I say again: they are parasites - just selling stuff off and taking on debt and holding out their hand for Sky money and bumping up the price of tickets - all in order to remain in charge until a big offer comes in for their shares...as a result (they hope) of their busted flush overall strategy of gaining a stadium on the cheap and selling up to new owners.

 

[chicoazul]

If there is this level of feeling them people need to get behind Evertonians for Change or whoever suits their viewpoint best. It's wasted energy getting all furious online, if people feel that strongly then they need to do something about it.

 

[TheFinnFan]

If there is this level of feeling them people need to get behind Evertonians for Change or whoever suits their viewpoint best. It's wasted energy getting all furious online, if people feel that strongly then they need to do something about it.

exactly, thats just what i ment with my previous post.

 

[Neiler]

The debt is enormous. It isn't just that debt of around £40M, it's the burden of the interest repayment on the securitization deal - another £25M to be paid in interest to come. And if you factor in the sale of tangible assets that this regime have made a strategy of (sale of buildings and land) and the outsourcing of goods and services (another strategy they adopted years ago) then you can see how irresponsible this lot have been.

The board have been sweating the club rather than growing it. I say again: they are parasites - just selling stuff off and taking on debt and holding out their hand for Sky money and bumping up the price of tickets - all in order to remain in charge until a big offer comes in for their shares...as a result (they hope) of their busted flush overall strategy of gaining a stadium on the cheap and selling up to new owners.

The debts not enormous in comapritive terms of level, turnover in PL in fact i beleive its one of the best.

TBH i dont have a prob with the securitization deal, its the best deal of its kind in football, other clubs who have taken out similar deal like Utd, Newcastle, Leeds have paid almost 500% the rate of interest we do. My gripe with the deal is the amount. The deal was required to keep the club alive after Johnson had placed a huge debt burden on the club - i have no arguement with that. Personaly i would have borrowed more, to cover the gaurteed cost of the KD or to fund a different stadium. I still would to be honest, im not against debt, but accumalteing it to pay high saleries or transfer fees is a fools errand.

I think assests have been used as collatorel but lets be honest here, anything that has been sold was a busted flush anyway, Bellfeild etc.

There in is thing mate in reagrd to a takeover, your not breaking any new ground here, the world and any one invloved in the situation, fans, board memebrs etc know an equity injection and new ideas are needed to progress, all have acknowledged this, there havnt been any offers or bids. The choice facing the club now is to continue living within our means and being well managed, increase the quality of the squad incrementaly or accumalte debt to try and go for gold and stage a fire sale ala Sunderland and Villa in a seasons time.

Personaly i beleive the first strategy is the most healthy. Even if an investor (which i doubt) comes in, if it takes 1 billion to crack the top 4 - then we are on a hideing to nothing anyway - would much prefer to be doing what we are.

Just to clarify i am neither for or against the board praticularly, so dont want to fall into a clear a line of demacation, just posting a fair analyses as i see it.

Its a far more complex arguement then people just fumeing over transfers.

 

[davek]

If there is this level of feeling them people need to get behind Evertonians for Change or whoever suits their viewpoint best. It's wasted energy getting all furious online, if people feel that strongly then they need to do something about it.

Well mate, as someone who's had a bit of a go in the past (more than some, less than others), it's my view that campaign groups that mount a challenge on a specific issue like the ground move can have an impact, but one that tries to change a boardroom before the time is right is tilting at windmills - because the board are under zero real pressure as it stands and (unlike in the Kirkby situation) they have all the cards to play. That comes across clearly in the way that E4C, for example, operate - which is just a mild probing of the owners and the CEO (and to be fair to them, that's all that they can do under present circumstances).

I'm not saying a change cant be forced - we all watched on as about 15,000 people got on the pitch after survival against Coventry screaming for Johnson's head, and that was the moment he knew his card was marked - even though he limped on a while longer. But it takes that sort of existential threat to a club to force an Everton board's hands. When the time comes it wont be small pressure groups leading the way, it'll happen by a huge spontaneous response to years of frustration.

In the meantime it's best to just sit at a pc and fume.

 

[BlackToffee]

dunno if its been put....

www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/p...and-general-running-of-the-football-club/3129

The key issue that might unite those for and against the board is the issue of sale or investment of the club. If only we could get a broad consensus then we could campaign around that issue in practical terms. What will happen in reality is that we will get hot under the collar, and by the second game into the season, the heat will die down, especially if we are doing well.

I just wonder how many of these internet warriors will do more than bash out missives.

 

[chicoazul]

Sir, I'd loathe if anyone took your fuming at a pc away from this board. It inspires me.

I actually feel a bit sorry for E4C. I don't agree with a few of their things but at least they're trying to put something together that's productive. It would seem that the majority of Everton fans are unhappy about it so something needs doing.

 

[davek]

The debts not enormous in comapritive terms of level, turnover in PL in fact i beleive its one of the best.

TBH i dont have a prob with the securitization deal, its the best deal of its kind in football, other clubs who have taken out similar deal like Utd, Newcastle, Leeds have paid almost 500% the rate of interest we do. My gripe with the deal is the amount. The deal was required to keep the club alive after Johnson had placed a huge debt burden on the club - i have no arguement with that. Personaly i would have borrowed more, to cover the gaurteed cost of the KD or to fund a different stadium. I still would to be honest, im not against debt, but accumalteing it to pay high saleries or transfer fees is a fools errand.

I think assests have used as collatorel but lets be honest here, anything that has been sold was a busted flush anyway, Bellfeild etc.

There in is thing mate, you not breaking any new ground here mate, the world and any one invloved in the situation, fans, board memebrs etc know an equity injection and new ideas is needed to progress, all have acknowledged this, there have been any offers of bids.

Johnson left circa £20M in debt. At that point club turnover would have been roughly £30M. That bears comparison to the debt/turnover now when you allow for the overall level of debt - the one you flag up as being healthy!

The choice facing the club now is to continue living within our means and being well managed increase the quality of the squad incrementaly or accumalte debt to try and go for gold and stage a fire sale ala Sunderland and Villa in as seasons time.

Personaly i beleive the first strategy is the most healthy. Even if an investor (which i doubt) comes in if it takes 1 billion to crack the top 4 - then we are on a hideing to nothing anyway - would much prefer to be doing what we are.

That's not really the choice though, is it? 'Living within our means in the current environment will get you at least stagnation and more than likely see a quick degradation of the club's competitive position. It's not a choice between evolving slowly into something better or risking all.

 

[davek]

Sir, I'd loathe if anyone took your fuming at a pc away from this board. It inspires me.

I actually feel a bit sorry for E4C. I don't agree with a few of their things but at least they're trying to put something together that's productive. It would seem that the majority of Everton fans are unhappy about it so something needs doing.

I dont want to be unkind, but I think the saying is: 'cap in hand gets kick in teeth'. They take an alternative anti-fume approach - which is interesting like, but they're dealing with people who - if they cant exploit them - will ignore them or worse.

As I say, I dont think it's the way forward. You and I both know what the situation is with Everton supporters. If there isn't a knife at the throat it's a shrug of the shoulders and a bit of a grumble. A game changer might be a bottom half finish or Moyes jibbing it and finally walking out in frustration - the mass frustration would spill over, and, tbh, I dont think we need any vanguard organisation to get rid of kenwright and co when that point arrives.

 

[Neiler]

Johnson left circa £20M in debt. At that point club turnover would have been roughly £30M. That bears comparison to the debt/turnover now when you allow for the overall level of debt - the one you flag up as being healthy!



That's not really the choice though, is it? 'Living within our means in the current environment will get you at least stagnation and more than likely see a quick degradation of the club's competitive position. It's not a choice between evolving slowly into something better or risking all.

Ha ha glad you agree with the rest of my points,

In Johnsons last year in charge mate, turnover was 22mill - with a debt of 20 + mill. Bills first year was 30 mill mark in turnover. Do the maths.

That 20 mill + didnt evaporate into thin air, our current debt and need to take out the securitization deal, was due to True Blue Holdings inheriting 20 mill debt from Johnsons reign. So argueably the current regime have clocked up 20 mill of their own debt over 10 years, + the interest annualy. But they have increased turnover and at the same time we have improved leaps and bounds in terms of PL position annualy and quality in terms of playing staff.

 

[Chang Elephant]

TBH i dont have a prob with the securitization deal, its the best deal of its kind in football, other clubs who have taken out similar deal like Utd, Newcastle, Leeds have paid almost 500% the rate of interest we do.

Think we need some details of the securitisation deals that those clubs have that compare with ours with Bear Stearns (originally before they went bust).....ID's of the loan company, the amounts, dates taken out, and interest rates. I'm finding it hard to believe UTD would need one and if they did that their financial standing would allow them to take one out at terms five times worse than ours.

 

[Chang Elephant]

To misquote from a famous film "You lot can't handle the truth" nor can your cat.

But keep up the insurrection, it might even last beyond the second game.

The games been up for Kenwright ever since the Kings Dock. He had a pass on the NTL £30M deal loss up until then as everyone can and will **** up....just not repeatedly.

Understandable that some people are docile with short memories, that's just human nature and why we can be led by appalling but strong leaders. Not understandable that you celebrate that fact.

Any fans grouping engaging with this board and expecting any sort of realism/honesty coming back is wasting it's time.