The Everton Board Thread (Inc. Bill Kenwright / Blue Union)

[davek]

Steve, I get that you're fighting the (apparent) zealotry on the other side, but this is nonsense. Regardless of how you feel about the board and their motives, 30 million over 10 years is catastrophically bad business for a top half Premier League club.

Mainly because of the 10 year number. It leaves us no room to improve our deal assuming we come into real success. We should never have signed a 10 year deal unless the money was ridiculously good.

This is a false equivalency, that we either could take the 30 million or lose money. Anyone with decent business sense can get money on kit deals in the Premier league, simply because most real businesses understand that it's cheap advertising at nearly any price. Kitbag is an unequivocal disaster because of the 10 year figure staring up.

If we only got 3 million a year for 3-4 years, it would be bad, but fixable. 10 years is a massive mistake.

This was the Kitbag negotiator after he struck the 10 year deal with the commercial genius Elstone...

 

[RaleighBlue]

We see television revenue increase dramatically

This was the Kitbag negotiator after he struck the 10 year deal with the commercial genius Elstone...

I should suspect he took home quite a large bonus. 10 years...

It's an eternity in football, and it's pretty horrible that we signed away that much time. How much were United making on their kits in 2004? Or really, how much were Spurs/City making all the way back then?

Can't imagine signing up for 10 years unless you're well into the hundreds of millions...even that might be a bad deal.

 

[davek]

We see television revenue increase dramatically


I should suspect he took home quite a large bonus. 10 years...

It's an eternity in football, and it's pretty horrible that we signed away that much time. How much were United making on their kits in 2004? Or really, how much were Spurs/City making all the way back then?

Can't imagine signing up for 10 years unless you're well into the hundreds of millions...even that might be a bad deal.

As said mate, it was a gamble that didn't come off. And when gambles dont come off in business they're usually followed by blood on the carpet...unless you're a bankster..or, apparently, you work for Everton as CEO (thinks of Wyness's half a million merchandise balls up and his survival...thinks again about Elstone and the Kitbag Disaster and his survival). Apparently Everton in the Community extends to charity for middle aged managerial types on an arm and a leg in wages.

 

[Toffeelover]

We all know there are question marks over the board and management of the club's business, but we post, debate etc until we are blue in the face, it will not make any difference or influence Bk, the other board members or management in any way whats so ever.

The only way would be to show dissent at the game against BK or boycott ST sales. We all know though that will never happen.

 

[Steve Wigan]

Steve, I get that you're fighting the (apparent) zealotry on the other side, but this is nonsense. Regardless of how you feel about the board and their motives, 30 million over 10 years is catastrophically bad business for a top half Premier League club.

Mainly because of the 10 year number. It leaves us no room to improve our deal assuming we come into real success. We should never have signed a 10 year deal unless the money was ridiculously good.

This is a false equivalency, that we either could take the 30 million or lose money. Anyone with decent business sense can get money on kit deals in the Premier league, simply because most real businesses understand that it's cheap advertising at nearly any price. Kitbag is an unequivocal disaster because of the 10 year figure staring up.

If we only got 3 million a year for 3-4 years, it would be bad, but fixable. 10 years is a massive mistake.

We're eleventh in the list of all time merchandising sales in the UK, not a disaster when you take into account the often repeated statement 'Evertonians don't buy gear'. I have never said that the Kitbag deal was the best ever, simply that outsourcing did appear to be the only way forward from a loss making situation. Kitbag are leaders in their field. The deal is a better deal than the original JJB deal which I think Wyness negotiated(?) and as well as the guaranteed amounts to Everton, there are provisos for greater income based on increased sale. In order to get real benefit from merchandising, we need a greater global presence, something that we will only achieve with success on the pitch. The Kit Bag deal was in no way a balls up. If we go on to greater success and vastly increased merchandising sales, the additional money will come in. In fact, I seem to remember reading that this is written into the contract.

 

[RaleighBlue]

We're eleventh in the list of all time merchandising sales in the UK, not a disaster when you take into account the often repeated statement 'Evertonians don't buy gear'. I have never said that the Kitbag deal was the best ever, simply that outsourcing did appear to be the only way forward from a loss making situation. Kitbag are leaders in their field. The deal is a better deal than the original JJB deal which I think Wyness negotiated(?) and as well as the guaranteed amounts to Everton, there are provisos for greater income based on increased sale. In order to get real benefit from merchandising, we need a greater global presence, something that we will only achieve with success on the pitch.

30 million isn't bad. (even 3 million a season in 2009 isn't bad). But 10 years is the problem. 3 million in 2019 is quite possibly going to be the worst non-promoted deal in the league. It may even be worse than some promoted teams deals.

If we honestly can't get Nike, or Adidas, or Puma et. al. to give us enough money to have their logo on our jerseys to overcome the cost of a cash-negative kit business, then we deserve Kitbag. But I think that is a stretch.

 

[Steve Wigan]

30 million isn't bad. (even 3 million a season in 2009 isn't bad). But 10 years is the problem. 3 million in 2019 is quite possibly going to be the worst non-promoted deal in the league. It may even be worse than some promoted teams deals.

If we honestly can't get Nike, or Adidas, or Puma et. al. to give us enough money to have their logo on our jerseys to overcome the cost of a cash-negative kit business, then we deserve Kitbag. But I think that is a stretch.

Without seeing the actual terms of the deal, in black and white(not just the basic reported figures), I would expect that there are options in the deal. Even currently, we get more money the more shirts we sell, there is just a bottom line minimum guarantee. Man City have a similar deal( I doubt figure-wise, but in similar terms), but will be selling a lot more shirts than Everton. And of course if we start to win stuff, the situation will change. Lets all just buy more gear, hey, lads? And lets win a few trophies to spread the Everton name globally, and lets have a nice new stadium, with nice naming rights. Until some of these things happen, we will not generate more than we currently deserve, either in merchandising or shirt sponsorship. Naturally, those that wish to will see absolutely everything that happens at Everton as a negative, but in reality the ship is steady, and steady progress will continue to be made. Arsenal may have a massive deal with Emirates, but don't forget the bulk of this is stadium naming rights.

 

[hafnia]

Just got to really hope some mega rich rotweiller comes in, writes Kenwright his cheque and goes to town on the amateurs who are ruining our club. Its run like a corner shop versus a department store.

 

[dholliday]

Shibbywiggles (wicked moniker!) linked this Graun interview with Roberto.

So if we have 25m kitty (at least) and spend it, I'm getting off the fence and joining Team Bill.


What say yous?

"We've got money to spend this summer," the Everton manager said. "Remember we sold £40m worth of players and we only spent £13m [initially]. That money is there to be spent. The new TV money won't make a massive difference on the playing side because we've got a lot of things we want to do on the training ground. We want to build accommodation here, have bedrooms on site, put a new pitch in and give the training ground a big lift. I'm going to use the money for that."

Spending on infrastructure is exempt from Uefa's financial fair play calculations but Martínez insists Finch Farm, with 10 full-size grass pitches, one full-size synthetic pitch, an indoor pitch and three smaller pitches, does not meet his requirements for the club. "Every year you need to improve," he added.

"We need bedrooms for the first team and the option to get digs for the young players to stay on site as well. We are two pitches short and we need to have a full-size indoor facility for all the age groups. The facilities here are terrific but the demands every season change and you need to be up to date.

"We have different projects and the cost depends on how much we are going to go into it. They are different projects – one is the bedrooms, one is the new pitches, one is for the youth to have digs. There are different projects that we can do over the next 24 months."

Asked why he wants players sleeping at Finch Farm, Martínez said: "Because you can work. Young players especially, any player under 24, needs to have the right balance of training and recovery. The moment you lose a player to injury and he has to go home to recover and come back, it makes it impossible to get two sessions in. You have to have that base to work if you want to invest in youngsters.

"The 10,000 hours rule [the supposed time required to become expert in any field] is impossible but if you can get a player doing double of what they do the benefits are incredible. Even before games you have to go to a hotel. You don't create that environment of feeling at home. It is now a must to have bedrooms. Every first-team player should have a bedroom."

The Everton manager confirmed his transfer budget has not been set yet. "Whether we are in Europe or not will be a big factor in that," said Martínez, who believes an extra six players will be required should his fifth-placed team secure Champions League or Europa League qualification. "You can work on a squad of 21 players in the league and for domestic competitions and you need around 27 players plus the keepers for Europe," he said.

Martínez admits he will be spending a significant amount this summer, by Everton standards. He said: "We've got money but I didn't want to spend it in January. The cash has been here before but in the past they have spent £10m in one window, £6m in another window. What we have done is bring in loan players, short-term players, and used the young players to accumulate money. It is about spending it a little bit at a time or all at once. I prefer to stockpile for the summer. Having to sell players, reduce the wage bill and keep money from other areas to make a big pot is what I've been aiming for over the last 10 months."

 

[Jxg]

Shibbywiggles (wicked moniker!) linked this Graun interview with Roberto.

So if we have 25m kitty (at least) and spend it, I'm getting off the fence and joining Team Bill.


What say yous?

If we get this money, I will pipe down about Bill.

If we don't, I'll have made up my mind about him forever.

 

[Kiwi]

I think @davek 's and many others main issue with the board at this stage is that the manager has not been backed in the past, and money has disappeared into a black hole that is in the board and financial reports listed as OOC.
But if Martinez is backed as he seems to think he will be, and we see movement on the Finch Farm and stadium front as well as the 25+ million for transfers in summer, then we'll all be happy chappies singing and dancing around the campfire.
We might even get a bit of the RINGFENCED money from Kirby lol
But if Martinez isn't backed, I'll join the lot of you in shouting Bill out. Because then I'll think we'll see Bobby leaving, and Bill<Bobby.

 

[dholliday]

money has disappeared into a black hole that is in the board and financial reports listed as OOC.

Our OOC is in line with other clubs. If you call that disappearing into a black hole, then everyone's at it.

 

[dholliday]

if Martinez is backed as he seems to think he will be, and we see movement on the Finch Farm and stadium front as well as the 25+ million for transfers in summer, then we'll all be happy chappies singing and dancing around the campfire.

If we get this money, I will pipe down about Bill.

If we don't, I'll have made up my mind about him forever.

After the summer window we'll be resetting this poll (it's almost 3 years old as it is). Be interesting then to see the consensus.

 

[orchard]

Hold on a sec., did we buy Finch Farm back in the end lids please ?

 

[Tubey]

Even if we spend £20m+ in the window it wouldn't change my mind at all about Kenwright, as it's money that's been brought in through sales, not fresh investment.

We should have something in excess of £25m as the numbers still don't include the mysterious Fer money from last January.

The moment we're looking at actual net spend increasing is the day I'll say Kenwright has done something other than look after his toy set without spending a penny on its maintenance. And we all know that day isn't going to come.

My main complaint about Kenwright isn't the money though, it's his ridiculous valuation of the club and opportunism. I can appreciate that he simply can't do it as he's not a rich man in the grand scheme of things, and I can appreciate he's a businessman looking for a profit, fair enough, nothing wrong there, but he has settled for the status quo through his whole tenure for greed rather than for the good of the club, and if it wasn't for the transfer market genius of David Moyes we wouldn't be in the situation of "let's re-assess Bill after the summer"; we'd be in League 1 with an angry mob out for his head.

So we'll spend £20m - wonderful, then in January we don't have a pot to urinate in once again, and in the summer we won't, and the January after that, unless we develop assets and sell them on to re-invest, and the whole sorry, stagnant cycle starts over again. It's hard to get excited about that; the only hope is that we manage the impossible and break the top four and stay there, so the Champions League becomes the Fortress Sports Fund of our generation.