Install the app
How to install the app on iOS

Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.

Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.

 

The experience conundrum

Status
Not open for further replies.
I would take Unsworth over Ferguson if we had to go internal. Although he seemed to lose his spark in the 2nd go he had to fill in.

Ferguson just comes across as a passion manager not a calculated one. We need someone who is both motivating and has some smarts…
 
Clubs like Barcelona promote from within. In theory we should do the same in that we prime a candidate years in advance to step up from the U-23's, to being assistant to then being the manager. Only problem with this is finding the right candidate to wait around for a couple of years for the head man to get booted out!
Dunc has had a few years seeing how various managers work, and I can only hope he's picked up a bit of knowledge from Carlo. And we know that he's not afraid to make hard decisions (Kean substitution). I'd say that it would be a safe appointment, perhaps an appointment knowing that from now until next spring, we'll be sounding out a long term manager who has spent a season watching us and knowing how to make improvements next summer.

You’ve also got to remember that Barcelona are a side with one of the biggest incomes in world sport.

They can promote from within and groom players like Messi, Iniesta, Biusquets to play alongside some of the best players in the world.

They’re not like us, who’d be throwing players like Small, Onyango into a frying pan.

Barca have a rich pedigree, it’s one of the most famous academies in the world. La Mesia.

Not just European boys, but Latín, African, they know it, snd want to play at the greatest academy in the world.

They’ve been at this for years, years and more years. But you can do that when you’re one of the biggest clubs in the land.

We can’t afford to get it wrong, whereas an appointment for Barça where it goes wrong, they can literally get any coach in the world to replace them.
 
I would take Unsworth over Ferguson if we had to go internal. Although he seemed to lose his spark in the 2nd go he had to fill in.

Ferguson just comes across as a passion manager not a calculated one. We need someone who is both motivating and has some smarts…

Unsworth was beyond pathetic when he was given the caretaker position after Koeman’s sacking, he had no new manager bounce, and was seen crying looking up at Joe Royle for assistance when we were getting battered at Southampton. I honestly don’t think Tranmere would appoint David Unsworth.
 
Unsworth was beyond pathetic when he was given the caretaker position after Koeman’s sacking, he had no new manager bounce, and was seen crying looking up at Joe Royle for assistance when we were getting battered at Southampton. I honestly don’t think Tranmere would appoint David Unsworth.
Ya.. all true. His first stint when he closed out the season was excellent.. I liked what he had done to build youth sides and always spoke very very well..
But that 2nd stint did a lot of damage to his chances..
 

The fan base is split

1/4 want big dunc and will say hey look at arteta he won the fa cup in his first season and took over a shambolic arsenal side. They would be second in the league table based on their form since January.

1/4 want a big name who has won multiple trophies like a conte

1/4 want a young and hungry manager who plays good togger like a Graeme potter

1/4 don’t really care and have given up all hope and just think eff it give it to Moyes cos he was our last decent manager aside from 1 wonder season by Martinez
 
Unsworth was beyond pathetic when he was given the caretaker position after Koeman’s sacking, he had no new manager bounce, and was seen crying looking up at Joe Royle for assistance when we were getting battered at Southampton. I honestly don’t think Tranmere would appoint David Unsworth.
Only time we looked good under unsworth was when we smashed Norwich 3-0 at home on last day of the season and a bunch of youngsters were given a chance
 
Would anyone care to give us an explanation on this arbitrary amount of experience and expertise that's needed to be a top manager? So far, it seems a manager needs to test himself at a lower level 1st, to prove he can do it, but also must have experience at a top team to show he's at the right level for what we need?

Essentially, what we need is a young coach, with decades of experience, who has a dogmatic philosophy on how football should be played, but is flexible in his approach, and must also have experience in the lower leagues of English football, as well as success with the top sides in Europe.

Excellent. That should certainly narrow down the options.

We have tried experience. 2 of our last 3 managers are literally 2 of the the longest serving managers still in the game, at polar opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of size of clubs managed and success.
We have tried young hungry managers looking to build something with fresh ideas.
We have tried big names.
We have tried people with philosophies.
We have tried adaptable and pragmatic.
We have tried working on low budgets.
We have tried spending lots of money.
And even within that, we have tried ready made Premier league proven players, players with potential, stars from gigantic European sides, players with world class pedigree.

None of that has worked.

So why is it so wrong to maybe try a different approach? Appointing someone from within, someone who already knows the club inside out from the chairman to the cleaners. Someone who is not just well respected, but loved by virtually everyone who meets him. Someone who has a passion to do the job and is motivated to prove himself for the right reasons, and not just another big name who is going to go through the motions and sit on his big contract, knowing full well that failure will only see him walk away with millions anyway, and if history is anything to go by, probably straight into the job of his dreams.

The more I think about it, the more Duncan Ferguson makes sense to me. We have always been a very peculiar club. Very insular and contrary to the normal workings of other teams and businesses. We do things our way, and we always have, sometimes with great success, and mostly not. The only significant fact that has to be brought up, is that we have NEVER won anything with a manager who did not have a prior connection. And the last time we had a manager with a prior connection, was Howard Kendall, 23 years ago, which just happens to coincide with the longest run without a trophy in the clubs existence.

People talk about experience like its something everyone has to have, which is just not the case and there are a constant stream of examples in football that prove otherwise. And even if you doubt that he knows the game inside out, he wouldn't be on his own. He would obviously appoint coaches and assistants with experience to help him.

The dismissive way people talk about his skills and knowledge are frankly disrespectful and unfounded. He earned his badges just like any other coach, and he has worked his way up from working with the young sides to becoming caretaker and assistant manager with the 1st team. Is he perhaps a little fortunate that he got his start at a top club? Sure, maybe. But he got that chance because of his character, his work ethic and his connection to club. And that is the case for the majority of managers in the game.

He has been in this game for most of his adult life, and spent the majority of it, both playing and coaching, with us. He was part of the last side to win anything, and he's been through it all with us, the highs and the lows.

What's more, Ferguson already knows everyone at the club. He has a massive headstart on any outsider we could hope to appoint, who would likely take months to settle in and another year to assess everything and acclimatise. Duncan already knows every player at the club, including the youth prospects. He knows the strengths and weaknesses, what we have and what we need. And if Brands is capable of doing what he was brought here to do, then they could and should reshape this team together and manage the rebuild we've badly needed since Moyes last season.

I have no qualms that he would be strong enough to make tough decisions, and I have no doubts that his teams would be committed. I think he might even surprise a few people with the tactical side of his game as well.

If we appointed him tomorrow, I honestly believe in his eagerness to show how seriously he takes the responsibility, that he would start work straight away, planning and organising and getting things ready. Unlike Ronald Koeman who took 2 holidays and left us hanging for weeks before finally swanning in and starting his scattergun approach to transfers. That was the 1st red flag right there.

David Moyes was 38 when he took over at Everton. He had been a player manager at Preston for 2 years, and he got the role because that's where he ended his career. Howard Kendall was even younger. He was 35 and again, had only been player manager at Blackburn for 2 years before coming home. Duncan is 49 and has almost a decade of coaching experience at various levels. He knows what is required.

At the end of the day, the only true experience that matters in this game, and especially at Everton, is the experience you get from being there and doing it. And until it happens, none of us will ever know. Whether that someone is just starting out, or if they have managed a who's who of Europe's top clubs for 2 decades, winning trophies wherever they go. Until they get here and do it, there is literally no guarantee of success.

Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. Mine says give it to Big Dunc. It's the perfect time and we genuinely have nothing to lose.
Lad think about what you're saying - we've been mediocre for ten years, so let's give the top job to the guy who's coached the first team for those ten years?

If Dunc was culpable for us being [Poor language removed], then obviously you wouldn't be supporting his managerial candidacy - so you clearly think it's not his fault. But that just leads to the same conclusion, because if it's not his fault then WTF has he being doing all this time? Is he like a mascot or something? Giving the manager's job to the bloke who dresses up as a hairy ballsack on matchday don't sound right to me.
 
You’ve also got to remember that Barcelona are a side with one of the biggest incomes in world sport.

They can promote from within and groom players like Messi, Iniesta, Biusquets to play alongside some of the best players in the world.

They’re not like us, who’d be throwing players like Small, Onyango into a frying pan.

Barca have a rich pedigree, it’s one of the most famous academies in the world. La Mesia.

Not just European boys, but Latín, African, they know it, snd want to play at the greatest academy in the world.

They’ve been at this for years, years and more years. But you can do that when you’re one of the biggest clubs in the land.

We can’t afford to get it wrong, whereas an appointment for Barça where it goes wrong, they can literally get any coach in the world to replace them.
Yes if it all goes pear shaped they can get the very best coaches known in the footballing world, like Moonhead.
 

My heart would love Duncan but my head says no.

He is a club legend and taking over could sully that.

I file it under the "would you hire him if he had never played for the club?".

Answer that honestly, and there you have it. (And yes, I am aware of that trophy winning manager thing).
 
Experience is largely irrelevant. Ancelotti hadn't exactly pulled up trees at Reggiana and Parma before he was given the gig at Juventus, after which he's pretty much always had jobs with clubs that by default are going to challenge for titles.

We see with the European Super League thing that there are clubs across Europe now who have so much money and are so far ahead of everyone else as a result that it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Ancelotti will go from scrabbling in mid-table with us to winning things at Real. Has he changed as a manager? Of course not.

Most of the "top" managers just go on the carousel between those "super" clubs where a trained monkey could win titles given their financial superiority, and we look at their honours list and think they're the bees knees as a result. I mean we don't really expect someone like Zidane to come here and turn us into worldies, do we?

The manager matters far less than the amount of money you spend on players.
 
Would anyone care to give us an explanation on this arbitrary amount of experience and expertise that's needed to be a top manager? So far, it seems a manager needs to test himself at a lower level 1st, to prove he can do it, but also must have experience at a top team to show he's at the right level for what we need?

Essentially, what we need is a young coach, with decades of experience, who has a dogmatic philosophy on how football should be played, but is flexible in his approach, and must also have experience in the lower leagues of English football, as well as success with the top sides in Europe.

Excellent. That should certainly narrow down the options.

We have tried experience. 2 of our last 3 managers are literally 2 of the the longest serving managers still in the game, at polar opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of size of clubs managed and success.
We have tried young hungry managers looking to build something with fresh ideas.
We have tried big names.
We have tried people with philosophies.
We have tried adaptable and pragmatic.
We have tried working on low budgets.
We have tried spending lots of money.
And even within that, we have tried ready made Premier league proven players, players with potential, stars from gigantic European sides, players with world class pedigree.

None of that has worked.

So why is it so wrong to maybe try a different approach? Appointing someone from within, someone who already knows the club inside out from the chairman to the cleaners. Someone who is not just well respected, but loved by virtually everyone who meets him. Someone who has a passion to do the job and is motivated to prove himself for the right reasons, and not just another big name who is going to go through the motions and sit on his big contract, knowing full well that failure will only see him walk away with millions anyway, and if history is anything to go by, probably straight into the job of his dreams.

The more I think about it, the more Duncan Ferguson makes sense to me. We have always been a very peculiar club. Very insular and contrary to the normal workings of other teams and businesses. We do things our way, and we always have, sometimes with great success, and mostly not. The only significant fact that has to be brought up, is that we have NEVER won anything with a manager who did not have a prior connection. And the last time we had a manager with a prior connection, was Howard Kendall, 23 years ago, which just happens to coincide with the longest run without a trophy in the clubs existence.

People talk about experience like its something everyone has to have, which is just not the case and there are a constant stream of examples in football that prove otherwise. And even if you doubt that he knows the game inside out, he wouldn't be on his own. He would obviously appoint coaches and assistants with experience to help him.

The dismissive way people talk about his skills and knowledge are frankly disrespectful and unfounded. He earned his badges just like any other coach, and he has worked his way up from working with the young sides to becoming caretaker and assistant manager with the 1st team. Is he perhaps a little fortunate that he got his start at a top club? Sure, maybe. But he got that chance because of his character, his work ethic and his connection to club. And that is the case for the majority of managers in the game.

He has been in this game for most of his adult life, and spent the majority of it, both playing and coaching, with us. He was part of the last side to win anything, and he's been through it all with us, the highs and the lows.

What's more, Ferguson already knows everyone at the club. He has a massive headstart on any outsider we could hope to appoint, who would likely take months to settle in and another year to assess everything and acclimatise. Duncan already knows every player at the club, including the youth prospects. He knows the strengths and weaknesses, what we have and what we need. And if Brands is capable of doing what he was brought here to do, then they could and should reshape this team together and manage the rebuild we've badly needed since Moyes last season.

I have no qualms that he would be strong enough to make tough decisions, and I have no doubts that his teams would be committed. I think he might even surprise a few people with the tactical side of his game as well.

If we appointed him tomorrow, I honestly believe in his eagerness to show how seriously he takes the responsibility, that he would start work straight away, planning and organising and getting things ready. Unlike Ronald Koeman who took 2 holidays and left us hanging for weeks before finally swanning in and starting his scattergun approach to transfers. That was the 1st red flag right there.

David Moyes was 38 when he took over at Everton. He had been a player manager at Preston for 2 years, and he got the role because that's where he ended his career. Howard Kendall was even younger. He was 35 and again, had only been player manager at Blackburn for 2 years before coming home. Duncan is 49 and has almost a decade of coaching experience at various levels. He knows what is required.

At the end of the day, the only true experience that matters in this game, and especially at Everton, is the experience you get from being there and doing it. And until it happens, none of us will ever know. Whether that someone is just starting out, or if they have managed a who's who of Europe's top clubs for 2 decades, winning trophies wherever they go. Until they get here and do it, there is literally no guarantee of success.

Sometimes you just have to go with your gut. Mine says give it to Big Dunc. It's the perfect time and we genuinely have nothing to lose.
Started off well but then went downhill.

I agree with all the requirements and attributes you listed. I just don’t think Dunc is the one.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome to GrandOldTeam

Get involved. Registration is simple and free.

Back
Top