The Friedkin Group reaches agreement to buy Everton

[nevsonlymate]

Peak Everton to find our next CEO on indeed.com

Or Breck Road Job centre notice board no experience needed full triaining given to right applicant

 

[Dr Baxter]

Or Breck Road Job centre notice board no experience needed full triaining given to right applicant

Is it still there?

 

[goldfinchmule]

The most shambolic stadium build finance plan in history goes to The New Mestalla...Date started 2007

Ours has been a dream compared to that.

View attachment 276712

At least they stopped when they realised the pitch wouldnt fit,we have gone too far.

 

[nevsonlymate]

Is it still there?

Not sure used to use the Broad way one but that closed down dont venture down that area now since the attack dogs died

 

[Jacko93]

You do repeat it a lot mate, though I'm 100% backing you (not the amount of posts, but what your saying). Me and @Neiler have brought this up many times, several occasions when Chong was saying all payments are sorted, only for more money needed from 777 and then the Friedkin group.

Now, these payments we've needed might actually be what Chong was accounting for (from 777) and now the Friedkin group have had to take over.

I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he's been misinterpreted, but I very much doubt it.

To be clear, I agree with you and I believe he's misled the fanbase on at least 3 occasions saying funding was sorted, only for us to require more borrowing because it wasn't in place at all.

The payments to LoR were not, and have not ever been in real doubt. The financing plan was in place for that, that would have been proved prior to contractual handover to give certainty to LoR alongside the payments tranches. Now, it was a Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) contract. As much as it sounds like it, this does not mean it will never cost more than, it is simply an agreement based upon the design at a certain point to give cost certainty. It will also be based very firmly on agreed actions and inclusions of works. If LoR value engineer certain aspects and give assurances to the client that their is no discernable difference in quality, only price, that is how LoR increase their margin. Any addition or change orders due to design alteration or client led requests, they are as expensive as LoR can possibly make them, as that's another opportunity for them to increase their margin.
Everton employed Meis to ensure that there was no deviation from his initial vision and if I know Architects, that means a near complete rejection of VE on any material objects. If that's true, LoR would have been incredibly officious in identifying and marking up any design changes. This can lead to an increase of overall price. Change orders is also a reason why New WHL went so far over budget.

What I suspect though is that people are getting mixed up with build price and delivery price. The build price will be what is agreed with LoR as part of the GMP contract, the delivery price will often be more than 20% more than that, even more so for us with our site remediation costs.

I seem to remember (not going looking for it, may not have been on this forum) that there was a fair few people mentioning about how the costs will be larger than what was reported and it could end up near a £1bn build anyway.

Chong knows his stuff about stadium builds more than he does about running a football club, though I don't think he's done that bad in what are very challenging circumstances.

 

[peteblue]

The payments to LoR were not, and have not ever been in real doubt. The financing plan was in place for that, that would have been proved prior to contractual handover to give certainty to LoR alongside the payments tranches. Now, it was a Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) contract. As much as it sounds like it, this does not mean it will never cost more than, it is simply an agreement based upon the design at a certain point to give cost certainty. It will also be based very firmly on agreed actions and inclusions of works. If LoR value engineer certain aspects and give assurances to the client that their is no discernable difference in quality, only price, that is how LoR increase their margin. Any addition or change orders due to design alteration or client led requests, they are as expensive as LoR can possibly make them, as that's another opportunity for them to increase their margin.
Everton employed Meis to ensure that there was no deviation from his initial vision and if I know Architects, that means a near complete rejection of VE on any material objects. If that's true, LoR would have been incredibly officious in identifying and marking up any design changes. This can lead to an increase of overall price. Change orders is also a reason why New WHL went so far over budget.

What I suspect though is that people are getting mixed up with build price and delivery price. The build price will be what is agreed with LoR as part of the GMP contract, the delivery price will often be more than 20% more than that, even more so for us with our site remediation costs.

I seem to remember (not going looking for it, may not have been on this forum) that there was a fair few people mentioning about how the costs will be larger than what was reported and it could end up near a £1bn build anyway.

Chong knows his stuff about stadium builds more than he does about running a football club, though I don't think he's done that bad in what are very challenging circumstances.

I completely agree with your view of Chong, he’s done a great job in managing the stadium programme….

 

[PeregrineT]

Colin Chong and the club have persistently misled people.

The cost is as I've stated. It's well over £800 million and it'll be over £900 million by the time it's fully kitted

They misled people all the way along. From the Denise Barrett-Baxendale "fixed cost" nonsense to now. I'm not sure why people aren't understanding this or keep disputing it

The Premier League Appeal Board said it was £800 million committed last year!

Premier League confirm real cost of new Everton stadium after Moshiri confusion

New stadium at Bramley Moore Dock was projected to cost approximately £500m but Premier League judgment has said that price of new ground has already hit £800m

www.mirror.co.uk

Yeah I highly doubt it is, otherwise news outlets that live off this would have been reporting it gleefully. Your confidence on other matters has been well noted for being interesting at best. The appeal decision does not seem to say the cost to build the stadium is over 800m. It says in the appeal(the part which was rejected by the way) Moshiri tried to convince them that "There was uncontested evidence that the new stadium posed an inevitable strain on the finances of the club which has to date committed over £800m to the project.". Tell me, A. how much do you figure they paid in acquisition cost, B. how much will the build out cost, C. How much did Moshiri pay in interest to avoid financing it himself, and D. How much of the project is going to be the development around BMD?

 

[jamieni]

I completely agree with your view of Chong, he’s done a great job in managing the stadium programme….

 

[PhilEFC]

The most shambolic stadium build finance plan in history goes to The New Mestalla...Date started 2007

Ours has been a dream compared to that.

View attachment 276712

Looks like it would be a great stadium that to be fair.

 

[frank rizzo]

I imagine this is what hell is like.

Being locked in this thread for all eternity.

Every day the number of posters gets less and less.

In the end it’s just Damo repeating “Colin Chong intentionally misled people”.

Make a distasteful comment and get him to bite back. You'll both get a thread ban but it'll be for the greater good. See the israel thread since me and corknonce got booted, much better for all concerned.

 

[Tony’s Carp]

I have been involved in the construction of an industrial building. Only for the purposes of this discussion, there are three stages:

Land acquisition and zoning
Construction (including site work etc)
Fitting

In addition, there are financing costs along the way, there are operational expenses (Chong wasn't working for free etc) and those are all part of the overall cost.

The only part that Laing O'Rourke was involved with, obviously, was the construction phase. A fixed price contract was in place, meaning materials were either bought at a fixed price or futures contracts were in place to guarantee cost. Even in a fixed price contract, change orders can alter that, but if the scope of the work does not change then the price does not change. I think the club has been very specific in that this cost did not change, meaning LOR did its job and the club did not ask for anything outside the scope from them. That's a much bigger deal than I think most realize, it means that the contract was detailed and inclusive, and there were no cost overruns in construction.

The fitting part seems to be where the confusion lies. It's not as if LOR is handing them a finished stadium as we would know it.

On our project the land acquisition and zoning was about 20% of the cost of the construction contract. The fittings were about 50%...Obviously this isn't analogous to a stadium, but land acquisition given it's location and the zoning was obviously a very large expense for the club and the costs on the other side to make it usable are very high.

In terms of comments on financing and such, it's obvious to me that Chong has very control over that. Frankly, since he has arrived, I think there has been a level of competence and organization that we did not have before, and in very challenging circumstances. Your comments about him, to me, are misdirected.

Even if Chong has chucked about a few quotes that were perhaps overly bullish I’m perfectly happy to forgive him because it seems to me delivering the stadium without major hitch, against an unbelievably challenging backdrop both at the club and in the wider circumstances, is a very impressive thing for him to have achieved.

 

[MisterJ]

Can we please move on from about who did or didn't say what about the stadium build.

What did you think they were going to say, terribly sorry but we've got half the job done and run out of money.

I know we are in a quiet period as we wait the takeover approval, but it's a non-story. Just forget about it and move onto something else actually related to the actual takeover; the stuff this morning about them putting a team together to run the club was actually interesting, the clubs statement on stadium finance isn't

 

[Osamabindiesel]

I’m his biggest critic on here, but Moshiri has played a blinder here if true, that’s a stunning deal.

He played the damsel in distress to perfection.

 

[Damo_1878]

Yeah I highly doubt it is, otherwise news outlets that live off this would have been reporting it gleefully. Your confidence on other matters has been well noted for being interesting at best. The appeal decision does not seem to say the cost to build the stadium is over 800m. It says in the appeal(the part which was rejected by the way) Moshiri tried to convince them that "There was uncontested evidence that the new stadium posed an inevitable strain on the finances of the club which has to date committed over £800m to the project.".
Tell me, A. how much do you figure they paid in acquisition cost, B. how much will the build out cost, C. How much did Moshiri pay in interest to avoid financing it himself, and D. How much of the project is going to be the development around BMD?

The club literally argued it in its evidence @PeregrineT

It is right there in writing. Argued by Everton Football Club's barrister in para. (iii). The Premier League did not contest that figure. Nor did the Appeal Board

https://resources.premierleague.com/premierleague/document/2024/02/26/b1c920ab-c053-4414-913a-c529efd27d18/Everton-FC-and-Premier-League-appeal-decision-260224.pdf

 

[Damo_1878]

The payments to LoR were not, and have not ever been in real doubt. The financing plan was in place for that, that would have been proved prior to contractual handover to give certainty to LoR alongside the payments tranches. Now, it was a Guaranteed Maximum Price (GMP) contract. As much as it sounds like it, this does not mean it will never cost more than, it is simply an agreement based upon the design at a certain point to give cost certainty. It will also be based very firmly on agreed actions and inclusions of works. If LoR value engineer certain aspects and give assurances to the client that their is no discernable difference in quality, only price, that is how LoR increase their margin. Any addition or change orders due to design alteration or client led requests, they are as expensive as LoR can possibly make them, as that's another opportunity for them to increase their margin.
Everton employed Meis to ensure that there was no deviation from his initial vision and if I know Architects, that means a near complete rejection of VE on any material objects. If that's true, LoR would have been incredibly officious in identifying and marking up any design changes. This can lead to an increase of overall price. Change orders is also a reason why New WHL went so far over budget.

What I suspect though is that people are getting mixed up with build price and delivery price. The build price will be what is agreed with LoR as part of the GMP contract, the delivery price will often be more than 20% more than that, even more so for us with our site remediation costs.

I seem to remember (not going looking for it, may not have been on this forum) that there was a fair few people mentioning about how the costs will be larger than what was reported and it could end up near a £1bn build anyway.

Chong knows his stuff about stadium builds more than he does about running a football club, though I don't think he's done that bad in what are very challenging circumstances.

He (and Barrett-Baxendale before him) and the Communications Team engaged in frequent obfuscation and misleading

The relevant figures is the delivery price as you termed it.

That was what FAB and Media asked questions about and they deflected to the GMP contract price very clearly.

Those with a low attention span want to "move on" mainly as this idea of people at EFC misleading doesn't suit them

The relevance here is that Friedkin Group have put up at least £260 million to get this stadium built. The stadium was not going to get completed without their financing. Contrary to what the club officials claimed

This is why Moshiri suddenly capitulated to Friedkin Group. In September