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The GOT Book Club

Walken said:
Surely you also understand that education in prisons is the most effective way to prevent reoffending, and that this hinders that massively. But then the goverment gets to look tough on crime and save a few pennies, rather than doing something that benefits society.
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Of course I understand that, and I don't believe for one second that this will prevent that. The only significant difference as far as I can see is that it will restrict prisoners access to second hand books and it may take them longer to be able to afford as many books as they want or need. I don't believe that legions of prisoners have hundreds of volumes of second hand text books being shipped into them by family members now if I'm honest. For the most part I would expect that the libraries in the prisons will be stocked to cover the vast majority of the texts required for studies. If I see one example of a prisoner unable (unable not inhibited) to complete their studies due to being prevented from accessing the requisite reading materials I will be prepared to change my view.
 
malcson said:
Of course I understand that, and I don't believe for one second that this will prevent that. The only significant difference as far as I can see is that it will restrict prisoners access to second hand books and it may take them longer to be able to afford as many books as they want or need. I don't believe that legions of prisoners have hundreds of volumes of second hand text books being shipped into them by family members now if I'm honest. For the most part I would expect that the libraries in the prisons will be stocked to cover the vast majority of the texts required for studies. If I see one example of a prisoner unable (unable not inhibited) to complete their studies due to being prevented from accessing the requisite reading materials I will be prepared to change my view.
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Simply banning books is a cost cutting measure, nothing to do with any political views on prisoners, it just makes it far cheaper to prevent illegal materials entering prisons, the poor state of libraries goes hand in hand with this cost cutting, and as this is an element of society who can't vote and are an unsypathetic target who the public won't care about it makes it easy for the politicians to get away with this. there is a good example linked in the comments section, and I know a couple of former prisoners myself, and you have far more faith in the system than me or them. Prison has never been about rehabilitation, and that doesn't look like changing anytime soon, it's a short sighted attitude that only prolongs the problems that the very people who complain about are willing to create themselves
 
Walken said:
Simply banning books is a cost cutting measure, nothing to do with any political views on prisoners, it just makes it far cheaper to prevent illegal materials entering prisons, the poor state of libraries goes hand in hand with this cost cutting, and as this is an element of society who can't vote and are an unsypathetic target who the public won't care about it makes it easy for the politicians to get away with this. there is a good example linked in the comments section, and I know a couple of former prisoners myself, and you have far more faith in the system than me or them. Prison has never been about rehabilitation, and that doesn't look like changing anytime soon, it's a short sighted attitude that only prolongs the problems that the very people who complain about are willing to create themselves
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I agree with everything in that post with the exception of the opening three words. This is the hype that surrounds these measures, no one is banning books or even suggesting they should be banned. You are correct that there will clearly be a cost saving in reducing the number of parcels entering prisons. I don't see this as being a terrible thing and it will be one less route to smuggle in contraband.

The wider issue around this government cutting costs left right and centre with little regard for the population that will suffer and the general failure to educate and rehabilitate prisoners I am happy to concede is a woeful situation. I have and always will be of the belief that the Tories are in principle indifferent if not outright hostile towards the working classes. I have no time for them at all, at the same time I can't stand ideological spin of any kind and prefer to look at the available facts. Not everything they do is wrong merely by virtue that it is a Tory policy in the same way that not everything another party will do is always going to be right.
 
malcson said:
I agree with everything in that post with the exception of the opening three words. This is the hype that surrounds these measures, no one is banning books or even suggesting they should be banned. You are correct that there will clearly be a cost saving in reducing the number of parcels entering prisons. I don't see this as being a terrible thing and it will be one less route to smuggle in contraband.

The wider issue around this government cutting costs left right and centre with little regard for the population that will suffer and the general failure to educate and rehabilitate prisoners I am happy to concede is a woeful situation. I have and always will be of the belief that the Tories are in principle indifferent if not outright hostile towards the working classes. I have no time for them at all, at the same time I can't stand ideological spin of any kind and prefer to look at the available facts. Not everything they do is wrong merely by virtue that it is a Tory policy in the same way that not everything another party will do is always going to be right.
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I may have overstated the situation there, was a big night, I do agree with your second paragraph, we just disagree with the risk/reward around certain books being sent in by family members, I'll leave it there anyway mate, were in danger of derailing a thread I find very useful
 
Back on track - I've just finished these
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Light reading, a little simplistic but very enjoyable.

Now balancing that with something a bit darker

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Which books have you simply been unable to finish?

I've given Ulysses a few goes but never got passed the first 100 pages. What books have you struggled with?
 
The Pickwick papers. The Works were doing classic books for a quid when I was a teenager so I picked a few up, Got about a quarter through it and the story revolved around one of the group witnessing a woman fall over. Just couldn't get into it. Have read a lot of other Dickens and enjoyed them though.
 
Kurt said:
Couldn't read The Da Vinci code..... Enjoyed the film but not the book.

Just finished reading 50 dead men walking.....brilliant, now starting on The Informer (again)
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The film has a lot of inaccuracies though, doesn't it? Like having things that are not even in the book, or changing major plot points, and stuff.
 
Fuleco said:
Which books have you simply been unable to finish?

I've given Ulysses a few goes but never got passed the first 100 pages. What books have you struggled with?
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I've read some ball-breakers in my time - quite like taking them on tbh. Struggled with plenty but will always finish them - view it like training, you can have a horror of a session, but you'll probably be better off if you see it through and start again tomorrow.

Ulysses is up there but not the worst - my copy has a forward by Anthony Burgess where he makes the point that it's essentially a simple story, Joyce himself said all he wanted to do was give the Dubliners one good look at themselves. So while Stephen's voice is a challenging read, for example, the book as a whole is digestible. Plus the last chapter (Molly Bloom's soliloquy) is probably the most scintillating prose written in the twentieth century, so it's worth the trouble :)

Very tough reads for me would be stuff like William Gaddis or Thomas Pynchon - both US postmodern heavyweights. Pynchon has some accessible stuff, but Gravitys Rainbow, Mason and Dixon and Against the Day are absolute monsters. All are very long and you've got dense, difficult prose on the one hand, married to impenetrable, crazy stories about the military industrial complex. Gravitys Rainbow was worth it for me as it is an amazing novel. The other two were probably net negatives - some reward but not enough for a major reading effort.
 

Currently on the third game of thrones. Also just finished the 6th Simon Scarrow eagle series book, and proceeded to buy the rest of the series off amazon for under a tenner, bargain.
 
Recently read the following books about North Korea:

Nothing to Envy by Barbara Demick: a series of short real-life stories from North Korean escapees.
Escape from Camp 14 by Blaine Harden: a real-life story of the only known escapee from a North Korean 'gulag' concentration camp.

and have the following book to start this week:

This is Paradise! by Hyok Kang: a story of growing up in North Korea.

All books between 200 and 250 pages, very easy yet fascinating reading. Highly recommend either of the former two to anybody with an interest in the topic.
 

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