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The Privileged Elite

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As long as they do it well, which is debatable, granted, I couldnt care less.

Well that is a major part of the problem isn't it? These positions are totally unrepresentative of society, which harbours more problems in certain professions than others. For example, politicians. These are people making decision by which the rest of the population live by. But in many cases, they don't understand what they are informing. Media also - they are informing people's opinions and thoughts on a daily basis, but those who, again, they do not represent.

This isn't the biggest issue for me though. I cannot see how you can turn a totally blind eye to prejudice.
 
Well that is a major part of the problem isn't it? These positions are totally unrepresentative of society, which harbours more problems in certain professions than others. For example, politicians. These are people making decision by which the rest of the population live by. But in many cases, they don't understand what they are informing. Media also - they are informing people's opinions and thoughts on a daily basis, but those who, again, they do not represent.

This isn't the biggest issue for me though. I cannot see how you can turn a totally blind eye to prejudice.

I expect most surgeons and medical consultants go to ace schools as well.

As for politicians, well they are a breed apart imo.

Thing is, most folk, like me probably, are quite happy to rub along, earn a few bob, and are not that arsed about "elites" or whatever.

Appreciate others get annoyed about it mind. I just dont.

And it isnt prejudice either, again, imo.
 
I expect most surgeons and medical consultants go to ace schools as well.

As for politicians, well they are a breed apart imo.

Thing is, most folk, like me probably, are quite happy to rub along, earn a few bob, and are not that arsed about "elites" or whatever.

Appreciate others get annoyed about it mind. I just dont.

And it isnt prejudice either, again, imo.

It's a form of signalling, and is something all of us do. I think in psychological terms it's known as thin slicing. It's not ideal because, as the name suggests, you infer a lot from minimal information, but it's something we do all the time.
 
I expect most surgeons and medical consultants go to ace schools as well.

As for politicians, well they are a breed apart imo.

Thing is, most folk, like me probably, are quite happy to rub along, earn a few bob, and are not that arsed about "elites" or whatever.

Appreciate others get annoyed about it mind. I just dont.

And it isnt prejudice either, again, imo.

Firstly, private schools are not necessarily ace schools. Mostly, people who went to them do well because of the prestige attached to the school rather than what they learn in there.


Prejudice was the wrong word in this instance, although I do believe it has a role. I mean to say we should not turn a blind eye to unfair opportunities. Everything mentioned here sums up the chances of people in this country. If you're born into wealth and go to a private school, you are more likely to get a high earning, influential job. Rinse and repeat. If you grow up working class, the odds are stacked against you. Let's take a student who comes from a working a low-income family. They do well in their below average comprehensive school, manage to get a place at a decent university. Already, this person would have had to overcome a massive amount of barriers to get to that position which somebody born into wealth and went to private school would not have had to. However, they achieve the same grades, the same qualifications and are competing for the same job. How is it fair that the student from a low-income background is still at a disadvantage? Odds are, the person they are competing against who went to a private school will be chosen over them, despite the barriers already overcome. It's a huge issue of society.
 
It's a form of signalling, and is something all of us do. I think in psychological terms it's known as thin slicing. It's not ideal because, as the name suggests, you infer a lot from minimal information, but it's something we do all the time.

Soz Bruce, my brain is fried after a day in the sun delivering 110 parcels and then getting to grips with Morishi TextGate.

So I think I agree.
 

Firstly, private schools are not necessarily ace schools. Mostly, people who went to them do well because of the prestige attached to the school rather than what they learn in there.


Prejudice was the wrong word. I mean to say we should not turn a blind eye to unfair opportunities. Everything mentioned here sums up the chances of people in this country. If you're born into wealth and go to a private school, you are more likely to get a high earning, influential job. Rinse and repeat. If you grow up working class, the odds are stacked against you. Let's take a student who comes from a working a low-income family. They do well in their below average comprehensive school, manage to get a place at a decent university. Already, this person would have had to overcome a massive amount of barriers to get to that position which somebody born into wealth and went to private school would not have had to. However, they achieve the same grades, the same qualifications and are competing for the same job. How is it fair that the student from a low-income background is still at a disadvantage? Odds are, the person they are competing against who went to a private school will be chosen over them, despite the barriers already overcome. It's a huge issue of society.

So, it comes back, again, to my view on education in this country.

To me, it is simple. Instead of accepting that some school, mainly private, have a Blue (sic) Ribbon cache, make the state schools better.

We did it in sport. Dont dis the "elite", emulate them.

Vote Roydo.
 
For "greed" use "ambition" ?

Not in the banking sector mind. But capitalism in general.

It may begin life as honest ambition but then turn into greed. Why else would bonuses be given for failure or awarded to someone by themselves?

I don't hold it to be a personal thing more the system takes over at a certain point along the way
 
Soz Bruce, my brain is fried after a day in the sun delivering 110 parcels and then getting to grips with Morishi TextGate.

So I think I agree.

It's kinda evident in this debate as well to an extent. It's what the Greek poet Archilochus called the Fox and the Hedgehog. Basically suggests that the Hedgehog knows one thing, and tries to shoehorn everything into that one lens. The Fox is more diverse and accepts that things are complex.

So in this instance, the hedgehog thinks that social mobility is low because the system is rigged (innit), whereas the fox thinks social mobility is low because of a multitude of factors that make easy catchlines difficult. In essence, if you can boil an issue down to a newspaper headline then you're almost certainly looking at it too narrowly.

For instance, if you look at success in life, you have to consider things like the work ethic of the individual, the connections they may have, their personality and social skills, their gender, the companies they work for, even things such as whether they start their careers in a recession and no doubt many other things. Just boiling success or failure down to the wealth of your family is far too simplistic imo.
 

So, it comes back, again, to my view on education in this country.

To me, it is simple. Instead of accepting that some school, mainly private, have a Blue (sic) Ribbon cache, make the state schools better.

We did it in sport. Dont dis the "elite", emulate them.

Vote Roydo.
I couldn't disagree more. Again, because like I said, the private schools aren't any better. You could argue that in lots of respects, and if you are a believer that education isn't just about the capital letter on your final report, then they are in fact worse than state schools on the whole.

And yet they increase opportunity of more prestigious employment for those who attend. Why?

A few reasons. Firstly, they are elite because they are few. Like rare items increasing in value. It is seen that those who attended and had to pay huge fees to attend are somehow more suitable for these jobs. Also, employers know what they are getting. Usually, somebody from a very wealthy background who has had the correct networks set up for them for the job they want. Finally, and linked to the last point, is the network connection. A lot of it is about who you know, and these elite private schools know the elite jobs and how to get their students into them.

So it has nothing to do with making state schools better. State schools are excellent on the whole, minus the constant governmental curriculum fiddling, and will continue to strive to raise standards.

You can never achieve the benefits of private schooling through state schooling. No matter how good the teaching is.
 
It may begin life as honest ambition but then turn into greed. Why else would bonuses be given for failure or awarded to someone by themselves?

I don't hold it to be a personal thing more the system takes over at a certain point along the way

That absolutely does my nut mate.

As, I think you know, I sacked off my suit job a few years back, and the self serving, bonus awarding, knighthood in waiting brigade who ran my industry sickened me.

How many of us could honestly say that we know for sure what it is that people in the finance industry have to do to get a bonus? I know I wouldn't have a clue, and I'd feel very uneasy about making judgements based upon flimsy caricatures in the press. I mean, how many of us would even know what a derivatives trader does, much less what they do to earn a bonus?
 
For instance, if you look at success in life, you have to consider things like the work ethic of the individual, the connections they may have, their personality and social skills, their gender, the companies they work for, even things such as whether they start their careers in a recession and no doubt many other things. Just boiling success or failure down to the wealth of your family is far too simplistic imo.

Of course it is. If you're looking at each individual story. But we are assessing generally, and if you're from a wealthy family then you're more likely to be successful. That's it.
 
I couldn't disagree more. Again, because like I said, the private schools aren't any better. You could argue that in lots of respects, and if you are a believer that education isn't just about the capital letter on your final report, then they are in fact worse than state schools on the whole.

And yet they increase opportunity of more prestigious employment for those who attend. Why?

A few reasons. Firstly, they are elite because they are few. Like rare items increasing in value. It is seen that those who attended and had to pay huge fees to attend are somehow more suitable for these jobs. Also, employers know what they are getting. Usually, somebody from a very wealthy background who has had the correct networks set up for them for the job they want. Finally, and linked to the last point, is the network connection. A lot of it is about who you know, and these elite private schools know the elite jobs and how to get their students into them.

So it has nothing to do with making state schools better. State schools are excellent on the whole, minus the constant governmental curriculum fiddling, and will continue to strive to raise standards.

You can never achieve the benefits of private schooling through state schooling. No matter how good the teaching is.

Why is there so much emphasis on what children do during 'office hours' up to the age of 18? I accept that it isn't this way for teachers, and various other professions, but for many working age people they will have several different livelihoods during their working life. I'm not sure it ever was, but it certainly isn't the case that you leave school/university and then don't need to bother learning anything.

To use a football analogy, how many talented 18 year olds fall by the wayside? They had the schooling but something meant they didn't succeed in adult life. If you look at this list of 'most important skills' as rated by various employer surveys, none of them are things that you get taught in school.

https://www.kent.ac.uk/careers/sk/top-ten-skills.htm
 

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