Unbelievable Numbers.

[Bohemian Toffee]

I just posted this is the Lingard thread mate, it gives you an idea of our costs and income:

Its a good post mate, wages and amortisation are huge factors in terms of our losses and limits, so its no surprise the club is purposefully looking at deal to reduce those costs, we saw it last season with Townend, Demari, Begovic and this season with Tarowoski, maybe Lingard and Eriksen it seems purposeful to keep costs down.

These are our figures in terms of what we make based VS wages and amortisation

2016:

Turnover: 121.5 mill / Wages & Amortisation £106.3 mill = % of Turnvoer 87.5%

2017:

Turnover 171.3 / Wages & Amortisation £141.9 mill = % of Turnvoer 82.5 %

2018:

Turnover: 189.2 mill / Wages & Amortisation £212.4 mill = % of Turnvoer 112.3%

2019:

Turnover: 185.7 mill / Wages & Amortisation £255.1 mill = % of Turnvoer =135%

2020:

Turnover: 185.9 mill / Wages & Amortisation £264 mill = % of Turnvoer 142%

2021:

Turnover: 193.1 mill / Wages & Amortisation £263.8 mill = % of Turnvoer 136%

So amortisation is a huge facotor for us in terms of costs particularly in regulation, so targeting free transfers like Lingard is likely a necessity given our high amortisation costs.

If we take two deals say Mina and Bernard - before leaving Bernard was our highest earners before leaving yet in comparison cost significantly less per year because he was on a free:

Mina:

Annual wages: £6.2 mill

Amortisation: £5.7 mill

Annual Cost: £11.9 mill



Bernard

Annual wage: £6.24 mill

Amortisation 0

Annual cost: £6.24 mill


So essentially targeting lads like Lingard, Tarowski, and Eriksen on frees saves us about 50% on costs is likley a necessity to save on our costs which have to come down, because our costs are undermining the club holistically now at this point year after year.

If the Tarowski's or Lingards of this world help us limp along to BMD then so be it, im not really expecting to see much development until then, i think we may need to have a couple of 15 -10th (if we can) place seasons just to sort the club and its costs out if im being honest. We really cant afford not to be in for lads like Lingard all weighed in my opinion. We need to utilise the loan market to and well mate.

Thanks for re-posting this mate, it's parts interesting to horrifying kind of like when I have to visit Mrs. BT's mum.

If you were offered 15th place for next season with a wages and amortisation percentage of turnover below say 120% would you take it?

I totally agree with being restricted to the loans and frees market and finding value there. I hope this summer is when we turn the corner and start behaving like a properly run club again. Tarkowski was a good start in this regard, in my opinion.

 

[Davidoff]

 

[blueblue]

The problem we had was signing “win now” players like Sigurdsson, who in fact weren’t good enough.

Let go twice by Spurs, and having stats boosted by set pieces, don’t really reflect, and we relied on him for a fair few years.

All of this on £120k a week.

Tosun was another example of wastage. Bolasie another “win now” signing. In fact the only signing of the 4 years I’ve been understanding the process on, was Williams, and even that was a disaster.

Some naturally don’t come into it like Pickford, Keane.

Huge wages, on downturning players don’t usually have a good return rate.

It’s why I’m concerned about Tarkowski on 4-year deal, and any Lingard signing.

I do agree with what you are saying but the manager knows that the club cannot have a repeat of last season, he would lose his job and my heart couldn't take it.

He has to plan for the Immediate future as well as the longer term.

I have no problem with Tarkoswki, Lingard and maybe another experienced central midfielder as long as we also bring in a couple of young lads that can develop more slowly but be good for the club in the longer term.

 

[Neiler]

Thanks for re-posting this mate, it's parts interesting to horrifying kind of like when I have to visit Mrs. BT's mum.

If you were offered 15th place for next season with a wages and amortisation percentage of turnover below say 120% would you take it?

I totally agree with being restricted to the loans and frees market and finding value there. I hope this summer is when we turn the corner and start behaving like a properly run club again. Tarkowski was a good start in this regard, in my opinion.

I think we're in and about 125% in this current year mate i.e. 21/22 - we saved about 40 mill in costs in 21/22, in 22/23 we will have cut another 42mill - i think! I think in 22/23 and if we finish, 15th are sensible in the window, sell a few more, find a replacement for USM. we will be very close to breaking even. We probably will as we have 25 mill odd incoming for Kean. The figures i posted are up to June 21, so its a year ago now - i.e. when Bernard and Jame were still here.

 

[matty1878]

good post mate. it shows how bad we are and things are and of change doesn’t happen it’s just more decline

 

[Oddball]

I’m not a ranter, I try to be objective about things but even the calmest of people couldn’t help but be furious about where we find our club today. I made the mistake of having a quick look at our current playing squad and without wanting to sound dramatic, barring Gordon, Pickford, Godfrey, Doucs, a few younger players and an injury wrecked DCL, it’s really poor and unless we do some extremely smart business, next season is going to be a real struggle.

I know this has been said before but looking at the official releases yesterday, Delph, Kenny, El Ghazi, Sigurdsson, Tosun, VDB if published numbers are to be believed, that’s £400k per week and £21m pa. Added to that Richy (who only the clubs 6th highest earner) that’s around £500k pw.

That is just a staggering number for such average players barring Richy and that’s before we talk about some of the others who’s wages are ridiculous.

To add further perspective. Mina, Delph, Sigurdsson, Gomes and VDB - representing 5 of our 7 highest paid players at £24.6m pa, racked up a whopping 1961 minutes of play last season - that’s £12,521 per minute.

So taking all of that into account and the current playing squad we have, my initial thought is… how does someone who’s been so successful in business, make such horrifically bad decisions and be so easily influenced by con-artists.

A fool and his money eh… ?‍

it would seem that way mate, but all the millionaires/billionaires i know are quite savvy when it comes to finance so i wouldn`t file anyone with those kind of assets under `fool`. i think theres more to it and that includes the ongoing structuring of the EPL with the most recent one being 5 subs allowed.

 

[TyphooToffee]

I’m not a ranter, I try to be objective about things but even the calmest of people couldn’t help but be furious about where we find our club today. I made the mistake of having a quick look at our current playing squad and without wanting to sound dramatic, barring Gordon, Pickford, Godfrey, Doucs, a few younger players and an injury wrecked DCL, it’s really poor and unless we do some extremely smart business, next season is going to be a real struggle.

I know this has been said before but looking at the official releases yesterday, Delph, Kenny, El Ghazi, Sigurdsson, Tosun, VDB if published numbers are to be believed, that’s £400k per week and £21m pa. Added to that Richy (who only the clubs 6th highest earner) that’s around £500k pw.

That is just a staggering number for such average players barring Richy and that’s before we talk about some of the others who’s wages are ridiculous.

To add further perspective. Mina, Delph, Sigurdsson, Gomes and VDB - representing 5 of our 7 highest paid players at £24.6m pa, racked up a whopping 1961 minutes of play last season - that’s £12,521 per minute.

So taking all of that into account and the current playing squad we have, my initial thought is… how does someone who’s been so successful in business, make such horrifically bad decisions and be so easily influenced by con-artists.

A fool and his money eh… ?‍

You can't include Sigurdsson in any of those figures because it's pretty obvious why he didn't play.

 

[davids]

Serious question,do the club publish the salary of individual players?

 

[cbrect]

So it’s the players fault for signing such a lucrative contract offered by the Board?
I think you have it wholly mistaken - dishing out the contracts is the root cause of wastage, not the signing by the player. Tosun didn’t work, quite literally, but he’d have been insane not to accept and see out the contract. Whomever sanctioned it needs sanctioning!

Was all fart, no poo. Didn't really get to a conclusion.

VDB on paper, fully fit would've been a good acquisition on loan. El Ghazi was and still is a mystery. The rest of the strap hangers I can fully get on board with. Ultimately, the numbers don't lie. Basically we've been a real life FM save !

I still think that any business with a turnover of £190m would find that £5m was still a pretty big sum to essentially throw away.

On paper VDB was actually a poor signing, it was hopeful at best and certainly not based on his premier league credentials. A £4m gamble/act of desperation which whilst pales into insignificance with our general profligacy, does show that they don’t learn.

Sadly until we can be proactive as a club rather than continually fire-fighting, this will be hard to break away from.

 

[cbrect]

You can't include Sigurdsson in any of those figures because it's pretty obvious why he didn't play.

I think we only need to read back through past posts and look at his previous season stats to see that it’s highly likely that we would be saying the same thing. It may however have removed a potential signing fee or a sudden improvement but I could only see him declining and that wasn’t exactly from a lofty position in the first place.

For what it’s worth, I liked this signing at the beginning. Taking good players from challenger clubs is absolutely the right way. Far better than taking on squad players from the so called big clubs.

The problem is that we offered high salaries, on long deals and I think there needs to be a degree of attrition at clubs where there isn’t a good chance of challenging for honours or CL football. Having players hanging around for 4-5 years, treading water, on big salaries just can’t be healthy.

There are always exceptions to the rule of course.

 

[cbrect]

The problem we had was signing “win now” players like Sigurdsson, who in fact weren’t good enough.

Let go twice by Spurs, and having stats boosted by set pieces, don’t really reflect, and we relied on him for a fair few years.

All of this on £120k a week.

Tosun was another example of wastage. Bolasie another “win now” signing. In fact the only signing of the 4 years I’ve been understanding the process on, was Williams, and even that was a disaster.

Some naturally don’t come into it like Pickford, Keane.

Huge wages, on downturning players don’t usually have a good return rate.

It’s why I’m concerned about Tarkowski on 4-year deal, and any Lingard signing.

Mostly agree with that. Tosun and Bollase were desperation signings / daylight robberies as was Iwobi (despite his recent improvement) win-now only worked when the big money first came into the game. FFP has massively hamstring smaller revenue clubs anyways.

I like the Tarkowski signing mostly. Good record, low ego, injury free and gets the tribal club nature. I think he’ll work out fine - we need solidity and toughness as well as the magic makers.

 

[Gilbert..]

I’m not a ranter, I try to be objective about things but even the calmest of people couldn’t help but be furious about where we find our club today. I made the mistake of having a quick look at our current playing squad and without wanting to sound dramatic, barring Gordon, Pickford, Godfrey, Doucs, a few younger players and an injury wrecked DCL, it’s really poor and unless we do some extremely smart business, next season is going to be a real struggle.

I know this has been said before but looking at the official releases yesterday, Delph, Kenny, El Ghazi, Sigurdsson, Tosun, VDB if published numbers are to be believed, that’s £400k per week and £21m pa. Added to that Richy (who only the clubs 6th highest earner) that’s around £500k pw.

That is just a staggering number for such average players barring Richy and that’s before we talk about some of the others who’s wages are ridiculous.

To add further perspective. Mina, Delph, Sigurdsson, Gomes and VDB - representing 5 of our 7 highest paid players at £24.6m pa, racked up a whopping 1961 minutes of play last season - that’s £12,521 per minute.

So taking all of that into account and the current playing squad we have, my initial thought is… how does someone who’s been so successful in business, make such horrifically bad decisions and be so easily influenced by con-artists.

A fool and his money eh… ?‍

Putting Godfrey and Doucoure in as the good ones scares the sh!t out of me.

 

[bcblue1878]

Points well made, I absolutely believe that good things take time to build and trying to buy success, as a latecomer, very rarely works.

By the way, I don’t think anyone can accuse Moshiri of a lack of commitment or abusing the club deliberately, only of naivety, ego and a weakness under pressure. Perhaps he should have stayed in his lane and steered well clear of football club ownership or as you say, trusted his team and not those seeking to gain personally from his poor money management.

I suspect it’s more a case of he was put in that position by his boss to then “creatively” use Uzmanov’s money! Putins move into Ukraine then put an end to that plan!
It does though make you wonder how a supposed “Accountant” could make such a mess of our finances!

 

[The binman chronicles]

I can believe it because it happened. I don't know if anyone has mentioned already but isn't it supposed to be close to 100 million just paying off managers and support staff...

 

[Kaiser Soysauce]

I’m not a ranter, I try to be objective about things but even the calmest of people couldn’t help but be furious about where we find our club today. I made the mistake of having a quick look at our current playing squad and without wanting to sound dramatic, barring Gordon, Pickford, Godfrey, Doucs, a few younger players and an injury wrecked DCL, it’s really poor and unless we do some extremely smart business, next season is going to be a real struggle.

I know this has been said before but looking at the official releases yesterday, Delph, Kenny, El Ghazi, Sigurdsson, Tosun, VDB if published numbers are to be believed, that’s £400k per week and £21m pa. Added to that Richy (who only the clubs 6th highest earner) that’s around £500k pw.

That is just a staggering number for such average players barring Richy and that’s before we talk about some of the others who’s wages are ridiculous.

To add further perspective. Mina, Delph, Sigurdsson, Gomes and VDB - representing 5 of our 7 highest paid players at £24.6m pa, racked up a whopping 1961 minutes of play last season - that’s £12,521 per minute.

So taking all of that into account and the current playing squad we have, my initial thought is… how does someone who’s been so successful in business, make such horrifically bad decisions and be so easily influenced by con-artists.

A fool and his money eh… ?‍

Less than what my missus thinks she worth.