Unfair refereeing and Everton.

[wandyr79]

The linesman job is to flag for offside when he thinks a player is offside according the to laws of the game. I explained just how goddamn difficult it is, infact its damn near impossible to do that with 100% accuracy.

Its a goalkeepers job to not concede goals. They still do. Its a strikers job to score goals. They still miss. The best goalkeepers and strikers in the world make mistakes.

So do linesman and referees. When its blatant obvious "mistakes" or getting the laws wrong sure, criticise. But when its a split second decision that is virtually impossible to accuratly judge with the human eye : you can accept and move on or whinge about it but you'll never change it.

Of course video evidence should be introduced to help them make the right decisions. Why? Because like i said, there's a reason why they need that help, just like last night its not because they're crap or on the take.

The odd mistake fair enough but when they consistently get things wrong then they should be looked at as not doing their job. The liner made two bad mistakes which cost us the game, the ref made a horrendous amount of bad decisions so should definitely be looked into as he obviously needs re-training or something.

Officials have been getting worse and worse over the past couple of years and this match highlighted the amount of mistakes they are making.

I mean one of them has to stand up and give a penalty when an attacker is wrestled to the ground, I have seen it 4/5 times this season and not once have they given one.

 

[wandyr79]

Surely i've made it clear that i'm fine with judging officials when they make blatant clear unforgivable errors. But the 2 last night that cost us were completly opposite of that and is simply human error which cannot be eradicated unfortunatly.

Its like if a striker misses 2 compleltly open goals in a match he'd be right criticised. However if he missed a half volley that came over his shoulder and a diving header he just couldn't quite reach to direct it at goal you'd understand why he missed those chances right?

Its the same for the decisions last night, you have to understand why the officals didn't give them in our favour. And its not because they're gash and need demoting because you could replace them with any official in the world and it would be pure pot luck that they'd get those decisions right.

It would be stupid to disagree with the human error part but it should not be 'pot luck' as to whether they get those decision right. At any level of the game they should be getting MOST of the decisions right and last night you could argue about half of the decisions were right.

I wish they would say to me in my job, hey it doesn't matter if you get 50% of the things you are trained to do wrong, it would be pot luck with anybody in your role. It would allow me to sit off and be **** at my job for half the time.

 

[- Bradders -]

I agree with Deathbyropeandglass here (uplifting name btw). Having looked back over the disallowed goals, they were both very tight. The first I immediately thought was offside, like the lino did and even with the help of a replay, it's as tight as it gets and a bit touch and go. Benefit of the doubt should perhaps be going with the attacking team but when it's happening so fast and bodies are moving so quickly, it's difficult to determine. I did think the second was a goal from the off tbh but again, very fast, split second decision, not to mention he could've had an obstructed view of the action(post and Anichebe). Fuming as an Evertonian that at least one wasn't given but from a neutral point of view, they don't get much more difficult for a linesman.

The standard of refereeing was generally poor as well last night, IMO. Didn't think the referee covered himself in glory, for both sides. He could've easily sent off Neville, after all (whether that's a good or bad thing, I'll leave you to decide).

Just points to goal line technology being required sooner rather than later. Nothing more frustrating than seeing a goal ruled out because of the incredible difficulty of the decision having to be made by the ref or linesman. Not sure about anything beyond that though, baby steps eh.

Just as an aside, do people going "oh we would've won 4-2" not understand what a chain of events is? One of them goals goes in, what happens afterwards in the match last night is irrelevant. We might've ****ing went on to lose the match for all you know. Just a pet peeve, carry on.

 

[Tommy Chong]

This reminds me of two seasons ago when Beckford scored against Villa...
The ball went over the line, but the linesman said it didn't.
Instead, the ball was played out to Bent, and he went on to score.
We were robbed on that day, and we were robbed last night!
I'm still seething over it!
That linesman should never be allowed to referee a Premiership game ever again!

 

[Seamus Colemole]

It would be stupid to disagree with the human error part but it should not be 'pot luck' as to whether they get those decision right. At any level of the game they should be getting MOST of the decisions right and last night you could argue about half of the decisions were right.

I wish they would say to me in my job, hey it doesn't matter if you get 50% of the things you are trained to do wrong, it would be pot luck with anybody in your role. It would allow me to sit off and be **** at my job for half the time.

Seriously mate you're missing the point by a mile.

Linesman are trained to be in the correct position, to know the offside rule and then apply their knowledge of said rule when making a decision on whther a player is onside or offside.

MAKING HUMAN ERROR WHEN THEY ONLY HAVE 1 LOOK AT A VERY VERY DIFFICULT SPLIT SECOND DECISION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR TRAINING.

Sorry for the caps but i can't make it any clearer than i already have done, if you think that there's anything you or anybody can actually do to make linesman get more of those tight offside decions correct then you're sadly mistaken.

Until they get technological help.

 

[toffeestillidie]

The offsides call is inexcusable. He was in position to make the call and blew it.

I hate to stick up for the guy on the second one, but how in the world is he supposed to be in position to see if a ball is just over the line, if his primary role is to call offsides and run with either the second to last defender or the ball? It's just not possible, the only time he should be standing on the goal line is on a corner kick. These guys need help and soon.

Have you seen the replay? The last defenders WERE on the goal line, as was the linesman for that very reason. That being said, it wasn't exactly an easy call to make with a lot of bodies in the way, but his positioning was not the problem at all

 

[pfim]

Have you seen the replay? The last defenders WERE on the goal line, as was the linesman for that very reason. That being said, it wasn't exactly an easy call to make with a lot of bodies in the way, but his positioning was not the problem at all

When the ball was headed to Anichebe, no one was on the line, no.

His positioning was correct, and that is my point. How could he have made the call on the ball going over the line if he's in the correct position? He can't. It's not possible.

 

[wandyr79]

Training & experience help people on jobs make good calls regardless of how tough they are. There are going to be times when they make bad calls and you have to hold your hand up and say you made a mistake, my manager would not accept it as human error if I got more than 10% of the things I do wrong regardless of how difficult the query is.

Why should we as fans put up with 'pot luck' decisions all the time. We should be seeing a high level of officiating and their bosses should be expecting the same. Unfortunately, they don't give a crap how they perform and that is why even when they make horrific mistakes they are given a holiday as their punishment.

Liner aside though you cannot say that the ref was not poor and should be punished some of his decisions bordered on comedy.

 

[Huey]

So you also agree that Fellaini's goal was offside?

The point is that two goals that clearly could/should have been goals were not awarded to Everton. In such a hairline call as that, the benefit of doubt has to go to the attacking team. Anyway, the picture you showed is not necessarily the furthest the balls goes into the goal.

And WHO CARES what the BBC text commentary said. It's probably some geek who doesn't even like football anyway.

No, Fellaini was onside (the BBC text guy agrees).

I understand that the picture I posted doesn't necessarily show the furthest the ball went over the line that's why I was hoping someone could post a still if there is one showing it further, maybe even entirely, over the line.

tim cahill had posted that 'no one' was disputing that it went over. The comment on the BBC guy was in response to that. It's that guys job to report what happened. Much like it is the linesman job is to correctly make these calls.

If there isn't a frame that shows the ball completely over the line from that camera and it did entirely cross the line that would mean it was over the line for less than 1/25th of a second (4 milliseconds). I don't expect a perfectly positioned linesman to be able to make that call correctly.

Likewise with the offsides call I don't expect the linesman to get the call correct in that situation with the players running in opposite directions and the attacker being played in only by the defender's trailing foot. There is just too much going for a human to correctly get that right in realtime the majority of the time.


These errors are frustrating due to us losing points but they are too close to blame the linesman. They're will be plenty more blatant errors later in the season to get pissed off at linesmen.

 

[Huey]

...he could've had an obstructed view of the action(post and Anichebe)...

If the linesman gets positioned correctly to watch the goal line the post won't be obstructing him. The post is entirely in play and the ball has to be entirely past the post to be a goal.

 

[- Bradders -]

If the linesman gets positioned correctly to watch the goal line the post won't be obstructing him. The post is entirely in play and the ball has to be entirely past the post to be a goal.

Well, obviously. Thanks for that. But he's a linesman, not a sprinter, and it happened pretty quickly, which was my point.

Just watched it again - as the ball is there, he's trying to get his head past the post, a split second too late to see that it's completely over the line

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Training & experience help people on jobs make good calls regardless of how tough they are. There are going to be times when they make bad calls and you have to hold your hand up and say you made a mistake, my manager would not accept it as human error if I got more than 10% of the things I do wrong regardless of how difficult the query is.

Why should we as fans put up with 'pot luck' decisions all the time. We should be seeing a high level of officiating and their bosses should be expecting the same. Unfortunately, they don't give a crap how they perform and that is why even when they make horrific mistakes they are given a holiday as their punishment.

Liner aside though you cannot say that the ref was not poor and should be punished some of his decisions bordered on comedy.

What job do you do mate? And how many times during your working week do you get one shot at making a split second decision at a very fast pace?

Bet the answers none.

 

[Huey]

Well, obviously. Thanks for that. But he's a linesman, not a sprinter, and it happened pretty quickly, which was my point.

Yes it happened quickly. My point that is that if he's in the proper position the post isn't obstructing. If he isn't in the proper position, with or without the post, he can't make a close call because the angle is wrong.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

dunno why anyone's surprised by mike jones being so poor anyway. this is the guy who let a beach ball score against us.

hmmmmmmm.

 

[Nails]

No, Fellaini was onside (the BBC text guy agrees).

I understand that the picture I posted doesn't necessarily show the furthest the ball went over the line that's why I was hoping someone could post a still if there is one showing it further, maybe even entirely, over the line.

tim cahill had posted that 'no one' was disputing that it went over. The comment on the BBC guy was in response to that. It's that guys job to report what happened. Much like it is the linesman job is to correctly make these calls.

If there isn't a frame that shows the ball completely over the line from that camera and it did entirely cross the line that would mean it was over the line for less than 1/25th of a second (4 milliseconds). I don't expect a perfectly positioned linesman to be able to make that call correctly.

Likewise with the offsides call I don't expect the linesman to get the call correct in that situation with the players running in opposite directions and the attacker being played in only by the defender's trailing foot. There is just too much going for a human to correctly get that right in realtime the majority of the time.


These errors are frustrating due to us losing points but they are too close to blame the linesman. They're will be plenty more blatant errors later in the season to get pissed off at linesmen.

I blame the linesman. He got two calls wrong in one game, it's obviously his fault. It's their job to make hair-line calls and he couldn't even do that.