Where and when did it all start going awry for us?

[degsy]

No doubt I will get hammered for this , but...

As a Red but with a lot of time for Everton, I can't help when I read these posts that people need to move on.

Heysel was awful and a disgrace which I am ashamed of. Yes it punished the innocent and in particular Everton. You might have got onto a cycle of European success and been in a better place to attract and keep the best players.

BUT IT WAS THIRTY THREE YEARS AGO.

If you want to keep going back to it nothing will be fixed. There have been plenty of opportunities and wrong turns since then. Fans telling themselves players, coaches and managers were better than they were. But maybe more importantly, not enough fight.

Remember Liverpool less than six years ago were under Hicks and Gilette. Full of debt. Settling for second-best and claiming it was world-class. Dragging Dalglish out of retirement for yet another try.

H and G ran out of road financially, but as important was that the fans made it clear this was not the club they loved. They marched, they demonstrated, they hammered the phone-ins, and made them very much aware they expected better.

Come on guys. Speak up.

You have a fine manager. He didn't have to come to Everton. He must have known it was a big job, He needs dramatic support from the club and you can play your part in demanding it too. Otherwise I think he might walk.

And a question...is Liverpool big enough for TWO top clubs? Manchester is, but I have my doubts here.

Yep off you go then, take your Murder Inc. franchise to Oslo, Bangkok, K.L. or Shanghai

And you we doing so well until that last line

 

[smileychap]

Love the way the thread about the decline of Everton these last 6 seasons starts with a typo

 

[greenhey]

Yep off you go then, take your Murder Inc. franchise to Oslo, Bangkok, K.L. or Shanghai

And you we doing so well until that last line

If it makes you feel better.
In a way you make the point for me.
I asked if the city is big enough for 2 BIG teams. I don't mean simply members of the Prem but clubs that have international visibility and are the default winners of things.
Manchester's conurbation is much bigger and overall wealthier.
But Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield, Leeds, can't support two big clubs let alone one.
I am not sure,
Currently it's LFC and that could change. But I am 71 and I don't think it will in my lifetime.

 

[degsy]

If it makes you feel better.
In a way you make the point for me.
I asked if the city is big enough for 2 BIG teams. I don't mean simply members of the Prem but clubs that have international visibility and are the default winners of things.
Manchester's conurbation is much bigger and overall wealthier.
But Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield, Leeds, can't support two big clubs let alone one.
I am not sure,
Currently it's LFC and that could change. But I am 71 and I don't think it will in my lifetime.

You are right about the moving forward not looking back.
Heysal happened, we admit it.
But there have been too many times since where we've taken, in hindsight obvs, the worst option or decision.

 

[jaycee]

You are right about the moving forward not looking back.
Heysal happened, we admit it.
But there have been too many times since where we've taken, in hindsight obvs, the worst option or decision.

Heysel didnt help at all,but for me its been a convienant excuse for the custodians of this club to get away with an awful lot of mismanagement and medocrity

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

If it makes you feel better.
In a way you make the point for me.
I asked if the city is big enough for 2 BIG teams. I don't mean simply members of the Prem but clubs that have international visibility and are the default winners of things.
Manchester's conurbation is much bigger and overall wealthier.
But Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield, Leeds, can't support two big clubs let alone one.
I am not sure,
Currently it's LFC and that could change. But I am 71 and I don't think it will in my lifetime.

Deep down I bet the powers that be tried as hard to stop Citysadvancement, but with money no object, its difficult.
In UEFAs money oriented tv rights cash cow champions league, its ideal for the one club one city.

Big team?
Kinell mate .
Fat Frank was right.

 

[riddick]

No doubt I will get hammered for this , but...

As a Red but with a lot of time for Everton, I can't help when I read these posts that people need to move on.

Heysel was awful and a disgrace which I am ashamed of. Yes it punished the innocent and in particular Everton. You might have got onto a cycle of European success and been in a better place to attract and keep the best players.

BUT IT WAS THIRTY THREE YEARS AGO.

If you want to keep going back to it nothing will be fixed. There have been plenty of opportunities and wrong turns since then. Fans telling themselves players, coaches and managers were better than they were. But maybe more importantly, not enough fight.

Remember Liverpool less than six years ago were under Hicks and Gilette. Full of debt. Settling for second-best and claiming it was world-class. Dragging Dalglish out of retirement for yet another try.

H and G ran out of road financially, but as important was that the fans made it clear this was not the club they loved. They marched, they demonstrated, they hammered the phone-ins, and made them very much aware they expected better.

Come on guys. Speak up.

You have a fine manager. He didn't have to come to Everton. He must have known it was a big job, He needs dramatic support from the club and you can play your part in demanding it too. Otherwise I think he might walk.

And a question...is Liverpool big enough for TWO top clubs? Manchester is, but I have my doubts here.

Funny, you don't mention how you actually went in to administration with Hicks & Gilette and nothing happened to you lot. No deduction, nothing. Almost like Special Dispensation FC does apply a bit, no?

 

[GwladysBlue]

 

[Billy Dean]

1988 the break up of the great mid-80s team really started to kick in.

 

[sam domingo]

If it makes you feel better.
In a way you make the point for me.
I asked if the city is big enough for 2 BIG teams. I don't mean simply members of the Prem but clubs that have international visibility and are the default winners of things.
Manchester's conurbation is much bigger and overall wealthier.
But Birmingham, Bristol, Sheffield, Leeds, can't support two big clubs let alone one.
I am not sure,
Currently it's LFC and that could change. But I am 71 and I don't think it will in my lifetime.

Is Manchester that much bigger and wealthier than Liverpool? Both have populations of around half a million,and both have some of the poorest wards in the country. Their "metro" area is much bigger,but equally they have many more senior football clubs to support than the three here on Merseyside. As for heysel,I agree that we can't keep using it as an excuse,and whatever frustrations we might feel about our club,they pale into insignificance when people have died,but I will say this from a personal point of view - I was 16 when it happened and at an age when I would have soon been ready to see Everton's adventures abroad,just like I'd seen Liverpool fans not much older than me doing regularly. That was taken away from me. As I said ,in the grand scheme of things,it's not that important. However,whenever I come across Liverpool fans,whether they be mates,family,complete strangers even,and the talk goes onto football,almost without hesitation they'll start acting triumphantly,maybe even take great joy in telling me how I'll probably never experience the things they will and it does stick in the craw knowing that I was denied seeing our great team possibly doing the same in an era when English clubs dominated.If there's one set of fans in Europe who could do with showing a bit of humility when it comes to European success,believe me it's you lot.

 

[greenhey]

I am sorry the LFC fans you meet behave like that. I don't and I don't know other LFC fans who do. In fact my observation is that the average LFC fan is hostile to MUFC and Chelsea primarily. I have never seen or heard LFC fans talk about Everton in the way that some on hear refer to LFC. Maybe that's a product of frustration and disappointment with all the false dawns than it is anything LFC have done- at least in the recent past. Probably half the fans of both clubs weren't even born at the time of Heysel.
And in response to an earlier poster , no during H and G's days it did not go into administration, although it was very close

Liverpool FC were on the brink of administration before Fenway Sports Group - Christian Purslow

FORMER Liverpool FC managing director Christian Purslow has revealed the Reds were just one day away from administration before being sold to current owners Fenway Sports Group.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[daza_1973]

Aston Villa 6 - Everton 2 - always felt like a watershed moment, although the cup five years later papered over the cracks for me that was the day we exited the big 4/5/6/7 or whatever they call it now and downhill ever since.

 

[greenhey]

Just to add a bit more about mis-placed negativity.
Around the time of the FA Cup game at Anfield there was a welter of posts on here about VAR, refereeing decisions etc, suggesting that LFC has some special treatment and that somehow does down Everton.
ESPN have done an analysis of VAR decisions and who benefitted from them. Man U did best . LFC were SEVENTH. Everton were mid-table.
Refereeing decisions- arguably LFC would have won the Prem last year too if Kompany had been properly punished for felling Salah.
LFC actually get less penalties at Anfield than away,
LFC had less red and yellow cards than anyone else in the Prem last year.
So there's no real evidence for this conspiracy thinking and it's another way of diverting attention from fixing EFC itself.

 

[jaycee]

I am sorry the LFC fans you meet behave like that. I don't and I don't know other LFC fans who do. In fact my observation is that the average LFC fan is hostile to MUFC and Chelsea primarily. I have never seen or heard LFC fans talk about Everton in the way that some on hear refer to LFC. Maybe that's a product of frustration and disappointment with all the false dawns than it is anything LFC have done- at least in the recent past. Probably half the fans of both clubs weren't even born at the time of Heysel.
And in response to an earlier poster , no during H and G's days it did not go into administration, although it was very close

Liverpool FC were on the brink of administration before Fenway Sports Group - Christian Purslow

FORMER Liverpool FC managing director Christian Purslow has revealed the Reds were just one day away from administration before being sold to current owners Fenway Sports Group.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

I must have imagined the hilarious rs fans with the NEC no European cup jokes,maybe the Steau banner in the kop was a mirage,oh no its the gobshites re-writing history again

 

[greenhey]

From somebody clearly still mired in it.
And the joke re NEC was that it stood for
Never Ending Crisis