Yet another school massacre

[monty]

As the world mourns the dead from yet another school atrocity, the head count appearing to rise with each incident, it occurs to me that on each occasions the culprit, nutter, murderer, call him what you will is a male. Why is this so?
Have the stresses and strains of puberty become so stressful that there has become an underlying urge in many more lads to commit such crimes, although clearly only a modicum ever react in this fashion? The media are blaming the gun culture in the USA, whilst this is certainly a contributing factor the need to commit must come before the means. I wonder whether or not the media themselves have a part to play in this tragedy by setting out expectations for lads today, by ridiculing failure, by making absolute toss pots into heroes and making success seem so unachievable. Nothing will ever positively pin point the actual cause of each event but the one common denominator is that all have been carried out by young men.

Anyone got any thoughts on this subject please?

 

[Chris]

If American government is dumb enough to believe "right to bear arms" still applies in the year 2007 then more fool them.
Its only a matter of time until the next incident and thats a very sad fact.

I heard one local Virginian reporter saying on Sky News "oh sure firing off your favourite rifle is a local pastime for many in this state, but er its not a violent state by any means. Lately though it has been 'unlucky' relating to gun crime".
At that point, I put a dvd on instead and flicked the kettle on.
I find it hard to feel sorry for people that put themselves in harms way, with a government that just doesn't seem to get it.
I sympathise with the people that lost loved ones, but surely its time to wake up as a nation at last and ban guns. Its in their hands. The world can but watch and wait.

 

[monty]

I agree with that Ich but I feel certain that it isn't the only or even main unlying cause. At present in this country if you want guns you can get guns, they're illegal yes but also available. Why is it always lads who commit these acts, girls in Virginia are also able to get guns easily but they never go to these lengths to hurt society, that to me is a problem no one is addressing.

 

[Chris]

I agree you can get guns in the UK but when was the last 30+ university shooting in the UK.
If someone has a gun in the UK, the police have an instant target. In the USA everyone(well ok not everyone at all, but lots and its a pretty big fkin country) has a gun.

I'm not saying it can't happen here, and yes it does take a certain mentalist to believe he has justification in his mind before he even gets to the point of looking for a gun. But if guns are hard to get or inaccessible then the likely hood of an incident like this happening is greatly reduced.

You can blame society or media manipulation that turns young men in to killers, I think that is only the trigger though. Underlying I think its genetic.
By nature men are hunters, in modern society though this is not an urge that is strongly encouraged (apart from in the army).
I think some men are just born with a few less voibles than others and that is all it takes. That plus a certain trigger (usually emotional rather than Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to be honest) starts these people on their warpath.

 

[Axlswhk]

Should have put all these insane murderer lock up in the same room with thoes suicide bombing terrorist and let them live together for the rest of their lifes.

 

[TX Bill]

If American government is dumb enough to believe "right to bear arms" still applies in the year 2007 then more fool them.
Its only a matter of time until the next incident and thats a very sad fact.

I heard one local Virginian reporter saying on Sky News "oh sure firing off your favourite rifle is a local pastime for many in this state, but er its not a violent state by any means. Lately though it has been 'unlucky' relating to gun crime".
At that point, I put a dvd on instead and flicked the kettle on.
I find it hard to feel sorry for people that put themselves in harms way, with a government that just doesn't seem to get it.
I sympathise with the people that lost loved ones, but surely its time to wake up as a nation at last and ban guns. Its in their hands. The world can but watch and wait.

Sorry Ichigo but you've got this 100% wrong. :angry:

You ever heard the saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"? Or here's a good one, "The gun crept up the stairs and..."

When this crap happens, the gun control activists always come out of the woodwork and say, "This wouldn't have happened if we had gun control laws."

What planet are you living on? Seriously. You put gun control laws in place or worse, make guns illegal and then what happens? (this isn't a trick question, think about it for a second).

What happens is only outlaws have guns illegally. That's what happens.

"Glad we've outlawed guns now except for the minor fact that it's now only the lawbreakers who have them." Good thinking there.

When you liberals wake the f&*k up and figure out what the real problems are in the world, you'll find that gun control laws aren't one of them. Liberals are always quick to blame everything but the actual problem. Personal responsibility never comes into play in liberal thinking. It's always the governments fault, or the enviroment they're in, or they were wronged by society. In this case, a liberal says that the fault here lies with the current gun ownership laws here in the USA. Again, couldn't be the fault of the person who committed this monsterous act could it?

Thank goodness that I have the right to own as many freaking guns as I want and it's gonna stay that way. (For the record, I own a Browning 9MM and love it. It makes me feel safe at night knowing if someone wants to try to do harm to me or my family, they'll gonna have to do it though a hail of gunfire)

 

[monty]

Although I have no wish to see the day that guns are freely available here Bill I can see both where you are coming from and where we may end up. At present we are faced with an out break of shootings in our major towns and cities by 14 to 18 year-olds, they get guns with easy and use them with impunity. The demand for the public to be armed will soon ensue if these gun fights continue because the police seem incapable of doing anything. At one time the underworld would govern who got armed but now even that branch of society doesn't give a toss any more.:angry:

 

[TX Bill]

Although I have no wish to see the day that guns are freely available here Bill I can see both where you are coming from and where we may end up. At present we are faced with an out break of shootings in our major towns and cities by 14 to 18 year-olds, they get guns with easy and use them with impunity. The demand for the public to be armed will soon ensue if these gun fights continue because the police seem incapable of doing anything. At one time the underworld would govern who got armed but now even that branch of society doesn't give a toss any more.:angry:

Well and that's the point I was trying to make (probably a little more forcefully than I needed to...) was that if you begin to restrict ownership by responsible citizens, nothing is going to stop those who want to use guns for illegal purposes from acquiring them. They'll do so illegally.

And I cannot depend upon the police to protect me anymore than the kids at Virginia Tech could, they can't be everywhere all the time. At the end of the day, if someone wants to do harm to someone else, they'll more than likely be able to do so.

If my owning a gun possibly deters an individual from doing harm to me or others, then I'll be glad that I own one.

 

[Chris]

Guns kill people Bill. Anyway you look at it. It is an item designed specifically to kill another human being. ANYONE that buys one is already a step closer to being a nutcase.
"I just wanna protect my family". Fine, do that, but when you are standing there with your knob dangling in the breeze pointing your 9MM at the back of chancers head who is lifting up your TV, will you actually pull that trigger? I don't wanna know. It takes a certain kind of person to brazenly say yes outright. The kind that scares the [Poor language removed] out of me. The kind that belongs in a nation where "right to bear arms" is an amendment of the consitution.
Not for me man. Never will be. I suspect I am not alone. Carry on though I won't stand in anyone's way. But when the next big gun toting massacre of innocent lives comes about, I'll watch neighbours instead.

I'm not 100% wrong, and neither are you I respect what you have to say. I can even see your viewpoint, I just don't align with it. You don't agree with my opinion mate. Fine by me I think we best just leave it at that.

 

[monty]

Ich I can see both arguments and I know where I'd rather live at present but, and to me this is the most relevent thing for us as a nation to take from those horrifying events, how do we stop it happening here, we are on the vgerge mate already with these random shootings by kids who are mini-gangsters with no respect for anything. Our laws are clearly insufficient to prevent these shootings but when something like this happens here a debate similar to this will ensue. It is scary.:sad:

 

[Chris]

I agree we are slowly seeing more and more gun related incidents on the news. But in large they are still gang related and an unfortunate few who get caught in a crossfire. I don't know what the answer is to be honest. We will never be in as bad a situation as the USA though because not everyone has a gun. I don't think there is a mentality over here or desire to even own a gun for a large part of the population if a law was passed.
It is getting worse though no question. How do we avoid the decline in to a 'situation' like that, I don't know. I think there are a lot more pressing issues wrong with this country and government that I would put brain power to before gun crime arrived top of the list.

 

[TX Bill]

I'll grant you that sure, the world would be much better off if there were no guns period. Kind of a obvious statement but I thought I'd make it nonetheless.

One of the issues over here regarding gun control (aside from the 2nd amendment rights issue) is what do you do about those who hunt? They may not own semi-automatic weapons but might own a shotgun for bird hunting or a rifle for game hunting.

How would the laws be amended to reconcile hunters wanting to own guns?

It's a question that has been going on for years and years and more than likely, will continue for years with no real resolution in sight.

 

[monty]

TBH TX one basic difference lies in the cultural heritage, USA a young pioneering country, wild frontier and all that, a short drive down the road was space to hunt shoot fishing and trap which most did when ever they got the chance, its a macho thing. Here the masses have been deterred from owning weapons, the gentry never wanted poachers on their land, they had the right to hunt and fish and shoot at anything they wanted to, including the masses. I'm still glad that we haven't got guns freely available over a counter but the thugs have no problem getting them it seems. In my youth it was banner headlines in this country for a gun to be used in any form of crime, the police were never armed, the famous Dixon of Dock Green scenario. Now we have swat teams, armed hit squads, trained marksman necessary to control our society. If one of those poor sods happens to shoot the wrong thing then our media rip into the poor sod as though an accident was deliberate. On reflection, going by changes in my life time yes I do think we'll end up becoming more and more like you, especially if divisions in society become more and more pronounced.

Keep smiling my old son, my thoughts are with the victims at this terrible time.

 

[Rob]

These UK gands... where do they get the guns?

What are the gun controls in Europe?

Is it possible that the guns so freely available from America are ending up here in the UK? ( I said here in the UK even though I'm in Japan....)

IMO we (the uk) did the right thing in banning them and if other countries did the same (I'm looking at you USA) then the number of guns on the streets would be next to none.

Unfortunatley even though the UK banned guns many years ago they still seem to be around, so if thats the case in the UK then even if the US banned guns tomorrow, it would take probably a century for all of the guns to be gone.

One big reason that the US goverment (especially the republicans) do not ever take action on tighter gun controls is that some of their biggest campaign donators are weapon manufacturers.

Money is King. Welcome to the USA.

P.S. bill... please answer ich's question... would you actually shoot someone in your home??

 

[monty]

These UK gands... where do they get the guns?


P.S. bill... please answer ich's question... would you actually shoot someone in your home??

Rob, I'll let Bill answer that question himself but I can assure you that if I found someone in my home I would use any means available to protect my property. If that intruder was in my daughters room, or threatening any member of my family with violence and I had the chance to shoot them dead they'd be dispatched post haste, no doubt about it. In case you wonder if I could do it the answer is yes, I've shot animals in a slaughterhouse where it is far harder as the beasts eyes are looking straight into yours rather than from a range of 200 yards with a rifle.