Ross Barkley

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I think there is very much a schism developing here

Those who hype Ross too much and those who are being over critical

Both are ultimately going to crush him under the weight of expectation

What we need to do is back him, support him and try and be positive without over hyping him

I've probably over hyped him in the past myself, so I'm not completely blameless

Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, give Ross your full backing. It's not been an easy period for him, but I think he still has much more to offer Everton, and he's got a better chance of achieving that if we come together as a fan base and support him

 

[Tel001]

Well, I agree with the principle that Barkley wasn't definitely the right person to bring on.

Don't agree with the rest like - though I don't think anybody is suggesting Everton revolves around Ross.

You seem to have this integrated thought that he's lazy, when in actual fact he's just been in poor form.

Mate if you don't think he's been lazy for the past two seasons then you are in denial... he pretends to press now that koeman has taken over... but he just jogs after them and hopes they pass it.... he doesn't try and win the ball. If I know this I guarantee you every player in the prem knows this... they know he doesn't tackle . Which makes his pressing useless. I remember him winning balls and surging up the pitch with the ball and holding off players and actually using his physique. He looks like a shell of that young 19 year old we all had such high hopes for. The only game he showed passion and fight was the game he was captain. All the others he has been a passenger when we don't have the ball. Some players can get away with it (like rom) because they are so productive at their main duties.. ross isn't and hasn't been for a long long time. He has been overlooked by 6 out of 7 managers that have managed him Moyes, warnock, woy, Sam, Southgate and now he's finally lost his Everton place. If he's as talented as people say ( I agree).. and works hard ( I don't agree) and isn't mentally soft... then why is he going backwards? He's not going to be the player we hoped IMO... which is a shame. But trying everything we can ( including picking him for games that we need to defend a lot in) to try and get the best out of him , at the detriment of the team is not what should be happening. People are so desperate for him to play and do well . I would love him to also, but some people would play him at all costs... Ronald's job is to improve our team... not just manage Barkley. Martinez takes a lot of the blame IMO but it's not upto anyone but ross to improve now. He's had Moyes being strict, he's had woy being critical, he has Martinez telling him he's phenomenal and giving him complete freedom ( this actually made him worse) and now Ronald being honest..... and nothing works. Which kind of suggests what people say about the England set up saying " he's uncoachable"

 

[Tel001]

Because those players work. Alli's movement is fantastic with and without the ball. The runs he makes from deep into goal scoring positions are a huge weapon and all the Spurs team work.

Saunders is right. This thread is 704 pages and he hit the nail on the head with less than 704 letters.

What did Saunders say? I live in Aus and havnt heard anything

 

[BlueToff]

Mate if you don't think he's been lazy for the past two seasons then you are in denial... he pretends to press now that koeman has taken over... but he just jogs after them and hopes they pass it.... he doesn't try and win the ball. If I know this I guarantee you every player in the prem knows this... they know he doesn't tackle . Which makes his pressing useless. I remember him winning balls and surging up the pitch with the ball and holding off players and actually using his physique. He looks like a shell of that young 19 year old we all had such high hopes for. The only game he showed passion and fight was the game he was captain. All the others he has been a passenger when we don't have the ball. Some players can get away with it (like rom) because they are so productive at their main duties.. ross isn't and hasn't been for a long long time. He has been overlooked by 6 out of 7 managers that have managed him Moyes, warnock, woy, Sam, Southgate and now he's finally lost his Everton place. If he's as talented as people say ( I agree).. and works hard ( I don't agree) and isn't mentally soft... then why is he going backwards? He's not going to be the player we hoped IMO... which is a shame. But trying everything we can ( including picking him for games that we need to defend a lot in) to try and get the best out of him , at the detriment of the team is not what should be happening. People are so desperate for him to play and do well . I would love him to also, but some people would play him at all costs... Ronald's job is to improve our team... not just manage Barkley. Martinez takes a lot of the blame IMO but it's not upto anyone but ross to improve now. He's had Moyes being strict, he's had woy being critical, he has Martinez telling him he's phenomenal and giving him complete freedom ( this actually made him worse) and now Ronald being honest..... and nothing works. Which kind of suggests what people say about the England set up saying " he's uncoachable"

Ross got 14 goals and 12 assists last season for club and country. If that's not been productive I don't know what is.

He started this season well, but has been in poor form for the past few weeks.

He hasn't 'lost' his Everton place. He simply didn't start in a game that required a more defensive set up.

He needs to work hard to improve.

 

[BlueToff]

I think there is very much a schism developing here

Those who hype Ross too much and those who are being over critical

Both are ultimately going to crush him under the weight of expectation

What we need to do is back him, support him and try and be positive without over hyping him

I've probably over hyped him in the past myself, so I'm not completely blameless

Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, give Ross your full backing. It's not been an easy period for him, but I think he still has much more to offer Everton, and he's got a better chance of achieving that if we come together as a fan base and support him

It's the classic GOT reaction now mate - one thing happens and there's no middle ground. Can't be arsed with it tbh.

 

[Tel001]

Ross got 14 goals and 12 assists last season for club and country. If that's not been productive I don't know what is.

He started this season well, but has been in poor form for the past few weeks.

He hasn't 'lost' his Everton place. He simply didn't start in a game that required a more defensive set up.

He needs to work hard to improve.

He was replaced by Gerry... hardly known for his defending is he? And he did produce some goals last year... but not enough to warrant doing literally no defensive work at all under bobby... did you see how many goals we let in last year? I'm not blaming ross obviously but the team was so unbalanced . He was basically a striker.... and I think if you played a striker in his place they would out score him...

 

[MartyMcFly]

What did Saunders say? I live in Aus and havnt heard anything

Basically he's a lazy headless chicken. The link is a couple of pages back.

 

[BlueToff]

He was replaced by Gerry... hardly known for his defending is he? And he did produce some goals last year... but not enough to warrant doing literally no defensive work at all under bobby... did you see how many goals we let in last year? I'm not blaming ross obviously but the team was so unbalanced . He was basically a striker.... and I think if you played a striker in his place they would out score him...

He was replaced by Gerry because we changed system.

Ross isn't a winger and doesn't have the pace that Del does. Deulofeu is a winger and had the pace to threaten City on the counter.

And no he wasn't a bloody striker. He played as a No.10 - off the striker - which is his position.

 

[MartyMcFly]

He was replaced by Gerry... hardly known for his defending is he? And he did produce some goals last year... but not enough to warrant doing literally no defensive work at all under bobby... did you see how many goals we let in last year? I'm not blaming ross obviously but the team was so unbalanced . He was basically a striker.... and I think if you played a striker in his place they would out score him...

He lost his place to Cleverly. Deulofeu was picked for no other reason than that he's lightning quick.

Unfortunately when it's Bolasie, Cleverly, Barry and Gana the ones supplying you the through balls you aren't going to have much to feed on. Even less when you consider Pep teams hunt in packs and therefore don't give the opposition time to look up.

The way to beat Pep's teams is to make small short one touch passes through their press before feeding the quick players who simply have to win the race against their defenders. We did it once all match and scored. You can't turn back because they will get back at you. The team has to be committed to countering when given the chance but unfortunately that's easier said than done when you have been chasing the ball all game.

 

[Tel001]

He was replaced by Gerry because we changed system.

Ross isn't a winger and doesn't have the pace that Del does. Deulofeu is a winger and had the pace to threaten City on the counter.

And no he wasn't a bloody striker. He played as a No.10 - off the striker - which is his position.

He's a second striker mate ( as in he offers as much defensively as one).. as in he offered some goals last season... well at the start of last season anyway.. but any half decent striker would get those goals and more . he is never a number 10. His passing , thinking, decision making, and his final ball are no where near good enough. His passes are mostly side ways or backwards , the opposite of what a number 10 should be trying to do. He slows the game down instead of playing at a high tempo and making defenders come out of position and creating space by moving off the ball.

 

[Tel001]

He lost his place to Cleverly. Deulofeu was picked for no other reason than that he's lightning quick.

Unfortunately when it's Bolasie, Cleverly, Barry and Gana the ones supplying you the through balls you aren't going to have much to feed on. Even less when you consider Pep teams hunt in packs and therefore don't give the opposition time to look up.

The way to beat Pep's teams is to make small short one touch passes through their press before feeding the quick players who simply have to win the race against their defenders. We did it once all match and scored. You can't turn back because they will get back at you. The team has to be committed to countering when given the chance but unfortunately that's easier said than done when you have been chasing the ball all game.

And ross was the man to pick was he? How many quick passes does he do? IMO ross shouldn't have played and he didn't . He's not been good enough recently . The people saying the game was crying bout for him are wrong IMO . Barkley playing would have decreased our work rate and increased the amount of time and space they had which would have meant they were more likely to score than us IMO and we would have lost the game rather than him winning it for us.

 

[BlueToff]

He's a second striker mate ( as in he offers as much defensively as one).. as in he offered some goals last season... well at the start of last season anyway.. but any half decent striker would get those goals and more . he is never a number 10. His passing , thinking, decision making, and his final ball are no where near good enough. His passes are mostly side ways or backwards , the opposite of what a number 10 should be trying to do. He slows the game down instead of playing at a high tempo and making defenders come out of position and creating space by moving off the ball.

He isn't a second striker though

 

[MartyMcFly]

And ross was the man to pick was he? How many quick passes does he do? IMO ross shouldn't have played and he didn't . He's not been good enough recently . The people saying the game was crying bout for him are wrong IMO . Barkley playing would have decreased our work rate and increased the amount of time and space they had which would have meant they were more likely to score than us IMO and we would have lost the game rather than him winning it for us.

Actually he is good at that. I'm not saying he should have played because he doesn't work hard enough and against City there's no way we could have afforded that but short quick passing in tight spaces is one of his biggest strengths because he's technically so good. It's very hard to press someone as technically gifted as Ross Barkley. It's the reason I would play him in midfield.

 

[Tel001]

He isn't a second striker though

He's not a number 10 either... and can't be a cm as he doesn't tackle or work hard... so what is he?

 

[Tel001]

Actually he is good at that. I'm not saying he should have played because he doesn't work hard enough and against City there's no way we could have afforded that but short quick passing in tight spaces is one of his biggest strengths because he's technically so good. It's very hard to press someone as technically gifted as Ross Barkley. It's the reason I would play him in midfield.

He slows the game down , doesn't tackle, work hard, head the ball and is careless in possession