New Everton Stadium Discussion

[MickA]

I was watching the Newcastle match the other night and the commentator was commending the atmosphere and saying "he couldn't hear himself at times".
The Newcastle ground holds 52,000 fans and it got me wondering where all the arguments for a 60,000 seat EFC stadium come from.
I mean, what is the rationale? Where do the people who come up with that figure get it from?
* Is it just a magical figure to match some London clubs?
* Is it ego,? Do we just want to have a larger capacity than the RS?
* Is it wishful thinking, heart over head? "I just FEEL it should be 60,000".
* Or do they genuinely think we have enough support to get 60k every home game?

Being the geek head that I am I thought I would do a little research on the subject. First off I needed to find the closest club to us in as many categories as possible. I chose Manchester City as they are a club in a northern city which has a more successful, higher supported neighbor. In spite of this City have certain advantages over us as they have a bigger fan base from a larger population and have been much more successful than us recently. So let's look at their pre covid attendances.
Etihad Stadium capacity = 55017
18/19 Season Average PL attendance = 54130 Times ground sold out = 0
17/18 Season Average PL attendance = 53812 Times ground sold out = 0
16/17 Season Average PL attendance = 54019 Times ground sold out = 1
In fact with a modern stadium with a capacity similar to our new stadium, playing Champions League football, winning premierships, and playing great football only sold out the ground twice since 2014.
Incidentally, Newcastle, a single club city with an attendance of 52,338 and famed for their fanatical support, only sold out their ground 5 times since 2014

We will have a State of the art stadium with a capacity just shy of 53,000. Personally, I think that figure is about right, and I think the faceless beancounters hired by the club have come to that conclusion after much more research than I have done.

So where do the 60k club think those supporters are coming from? bearing in mind the seating difference would be the most expensive part of the build by far and not viable financially for the club

I know Newcastle very well having lived there for years. They have been a beneficiary of the PL bubble at just the right time as Keegan got them fearless (if ultimately useluess). SJP was worn down and crowds were not great but that all changed. Now with a revamped stadium they fill it more often than not (add in away day no-shows to the figures) and they have a massive local area to draw from.

Newcastle have a one club (regional capital) city and have taken supporters from Co Durham, which were traditionally Sunderland, and they also have all of Northumberland. Whatever the past record they are here to stay as a 50k+ club.

 

[MickA]

Aye, it's hard to tell from the images alone as others have said the angles are quite good, but I do get the sense that it'll be good but perfect.

It will but all of the balcony view will be gone, being set back 20m or so. I think a few used to Goodison's intimacy will be surprised at their new viewing spec.

 

[Tom Hughes]

Reading back through this thread and noticed the above from @Brisan123. Business governance nowadays make it less appealing for 'guests' to accept invitations from external companies - in either a professional or private format - as they are becoming more and more obligated to disclose interests for fear that it may be deemed a form of bribery and then governance regulators will be all over their asses.
So yeah, I'm with Bri on this one - the days of the prawn butty brigade may soon be a thing of the past....hopefully.

Numbers of Corporate fans have not really dropped off in recent years at all. Spurs have over 8000 corporates and I think 80 boxes in their own dedicated tiers. The important factor to remember is that love them or loathe them, the income from these areas of the stadium goes a long way towards paying for (and future subsidising of) the rest. We have only 20 boxes and about half that (and probably far less well-healed) corporate and lounge capacity over fewer floors. For a simple comparison, that's fewer boxes than at Derby or Darlington and numerous others. Even Brentford have nearly 3k corporates out of a 17k capacity.

 

[PhilM]

It will but all of the balcony view will be gone, being set back 20m or so. I think a few used to Goodison's intimacy will be surprised at their new viewing spec.

This is quite likely.

I sit towards the back of the Street End, under the cover of the Upper, and it's close, intimate and warm - a great view with only one post that doesn't block much.

The opennesses of the new stadium may feel a bit awkward.

 

[MickA]

This is quite likely.

I sit towards the back of the Street End, under the cover of the Upper, and it's close, intimate and warm - a great view with only one post that doesn't block much.

The opennesses of the new stadium may feel a bit awkward.

I'm in the Top Balc, I know for a fact I won't get similar.

 

[Chewbacca]

I know Newcastle very well having lived there for years. They have been a beneficiary of the PL bubble at just the right time as Keegan got them fearless (if ultimately useluess). SJP was worn down and crowds were not great but that all changed. Now with a revamped stadium they fill it more often than not (add in away day no-shows to the figures) and they have a massive local area to draw from.

Newcastle have a one club (regional capital) city and have taken supporters from Co Durham, which were traditionally Sunderland, and they also have all of Northumberland. Whatever the past record they are here to stay as a 50k+ club.

Not all of Northumberland la

 

[MickA]

Not all of Northumberland la

Some Sunderland outliers in the colliery towns too

 

[Chewbacca]

And a few hundred Berwick fans

 

[Yarrgh]

Honestly mate they massively outnumber us

Some say those rs scumbags are trying to do the same on this forum!

 

[Yarrgh]

When can a stadium be awarded naming rights? Surely getting USM or whoever associated with the ground before even day 1 has got to be desirable?

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

This is quite correct.. a fan from out of town or foreign fan which make up three quarters of Liverpool’s home support will not have the same love or affection for the club because they chose to support it rather than inherit it like a local fan does..

Did you give up on the Dalian Pro cover story?

 

[blulouie]

When can a stadium be awarded naming rights? Surely getting USM or whoever associated with the ground before even day 1 has got to be desirable?

Anytime i would guess , there's nothing to stop the sponsorship of Goodison either for the few years that are left.

 

[BNJ1878]

I'm in the Top Balc, I know for a fact I won't get similar.

I really don't get how people say other areas of the ground have a better view.

Anywhere between seats 85 to about 120 are pretty much perfect as far as watching football goes.

I love Goodison, but I'm glad we're moving. I'm 10000% certain my seat at BM won't offer anything like the same view. (though I hope it's comfier)

 

[PhilM]

I really don't get how people say other areas of the ground have a better view.

Anywhere between seats 85 to about 120 are pretty much perfect as far as watching football goes.

I love Goodison, but I'm glad we're moving. I'm 10000% certain my seat at BM won't offer anything like the same view. (though I hope it's comfier)

The best view in the purest sense (full view of the pitch from a good angle), but in terms of best view and atmosphere I'd say the Upper Gwladys is best.

 

[Legend78]

Unfortunately, I think we're kidding ourselves if we think United's or LFC's crowds will drop off dramatically. Their futures are relatively assured because their fanbases are massive. We haven't out supported either of them in over 50yrs in terms of average attendance.... and what's happened since has only grown that disparity further. Yes, we have a very loyal local fanbase and fair few out of towners due to our historic successes and the scouse diaspora, but those clubs are on a completely different level in terms of support and have been for decades. LFC charge to be on their waiting list which they stopped accepting new applicants for years ago and have a vast fee-paying membership scheme just to be considered for tickets. They only have a token quantity of concession priced tickets. I don't think they would have a problem filling 70k+ regularly.... we have to charge buttons by comparison to fill 39k.

It is true that more local blues attend than local reds, but that is merely indicative of their success, limited capacity and far higher demand. It may (hopefully will) backfire on them that they're ticketing policies and lack of ambition in terms of capacity for so many years has stopped thousands of local reds attending, meaning a whole generation has never got into the habit of going the match regularly. However, I don't think they'll have any problems filling the latest expansion or any others they may have planned for the future.

Even if they had a barren spell and demand dropped off slightly, there are massive reserves of fans waiting to get tickets and furthermore, even if disaster struck they could probably afford to reduce some prices, because their expansions are self-financing and pay for themselves in no time. That's before you even consider their commercial and other incomes.

Have to disagree with your point there.. modern fans are only interested in success and clubs who win things.. if what you are saying was true why have Chelsea since Abramovic took over now the second biggest fanbase in the country and nearly twice as many fans worldwide than Liverpool and Arsenal... its because modern fans are fickle.. Liverpool fans especially as they are trading on success earned back in the 1970s and 80s.. this only has so much mileage and needs constant feeding which they haven’t done last 30 years...
If you have a look at Liverpool’s pre season friendly attendences away in the Far East.. they have dropped significantly last few years from what it once was.. this is because people in that part of the world support whoever is on top at the time.. they buy a Liverpool shirt one season and the next a Chelsea one.. probably United or City after that.. this is the type of fan clubs like United and Liverpool include in there numbers... not proper fans at all..