2023/24 Sean Dyche

[Goat]

You wouldn't agree that Dyche is ultimately responsible for getting the players scoring again?

He just has to hold his hands up and hope? He doesn't have to change anything about his approach?

That's such a terrifyingly defeatist mindset - and we're absolutely finished if Dyche shares it.

Always the victim, its never his fault.

“I was a Seventies kid so I supported Liverpool,” he said. “My local team Kettering, Kettering Town, me and my dad used to go down and watch them, they were pretty big in the non-league scene but [I supported] Liverpool from a distance.”

 

[allen]

There is a problem with finishing at the club, not in chance creation to my mind or attacking, its quality of finishing.

Why do we lack quality in finishing, we sold a 150 mill worth of attacking players in 18 months - what did we think was going to happen .

I mean whats more likely, Dyche has never spoken to the forwards or we sold anything that could finish in the PL for North of 150 mill. and now cant finish chances. I dont know why people dont make more of this or understand it.

Its simple cause and effect.

Historical context is irrelevant to the question "does Dyche bear responsibility to improve the performance of the players he has right now?"

It doesn't matter in the slightest why we are where we are in answering that question.

He can't change the personnel between now and the end of the season.

He has to get us scoring right now. He has to change his tactics or his coaching.

If you don't agree with that basic statement, I've got nothing else for you.

 

[Goat]

Historical context is irrelevant to the question "does Dyche bear responsibility to improve the performance of the players he has right now?"

It doesn't matter in the slightest why we are where we are in answering that question.

He can't change the personnel between now and the end of the season.

He has to get us scoring right now. He has to change his tactics or his coaching.

If you don't agree with that basic statement, I've got nothing else for you.

Calvert Lewin scores 20+ goals under a different manager
Beto scores 10+ goals under a different manager
Neal Maupay scores 10+ goals under a different manager

Under Dyche, none of them can score goals.

But its them, not Dyche.

 

[blueboy72]

No.

Mykolenko can at least push forward as he's done and scored, even if his crossing is a bit meh.
Patterson can push forward as he's done to at least cross/attack but he's clearly instructed not to.

Coleman/Young/Godfrey on the right is defenseball as we also play a winger on the halfway line to protect the right back.

Ultimately, this is how Dyche has set up his entire career and he will continue to do exactly that.

No he’s not the fan boys have told us it will be different when he gets a few bob and has a Couple of windows. When he’s got the Onana, Branthwaite and Pickford money, he off to buy two attacking fullbacks, a flair number 10
Who can run with the ball and go past people. And two pacy wingers who will attack full backs, score goals and can do things off the cuff.

 

[Neiler]

Historical context is irrelevant to the question "does Dyche bear responsibility to improve the performance of the players he has right now?"

It doesn't matter in the slightest why we are where we are in answering that question.

He can't change the personnel between now and the end of the season.

He has to get us scoring right now. He has to change his tactics or his coaching.

If you don't agree with that basic statement, I've got nothing else for you.

Why is recent historical context irrelevant when it has a direct impact on the present and performances - that's silly mate - you want to ignore that because it suits the point you are trying to make - "if i ignore all that" - "then what about this".

It matters because overall, this is a thread on judging performance. If i ask you to drive to Manchester and take the engine out of the car, its unfair to ask why you are late.

If you cant argue context and also tactics and formation, you are right you don't have anything for me - i mean that with all respect.

I agree, he has a job of work, he has to get a really poor unit to score and get results - thats obvious really, hes proven he can do it - hes clocked 31 points in this league, he kept one of the worst squads in the league ever to stay up for my money last year, there's nothing to suggest to me based on past record and performances given the limits hes working in, that he cant do it - we certainly have a chance within the manure storm - i dont think we get that with any one else.

 

[Delargeinho]

Why do we lack quality in finishing, we sold a 150 mill worth of attacking players in 18 odd months - what did we think was going to happen.

I mean whats more likely, Dyche has never spoken to the forwards or we sold anything that could finish in the PL for North of 150 mill and now struggle to finish chances. I dont know why people dont make more of this or understand it.

Its simple cause and effect.

Do i think a Dyche team scores more goals with Richarlison or Gordon in it and more forward options - yes i do.

Our finishing is really bad and obviously our attacking players quality is worse than 2-3y ago. We will be in this situation to lose our best players yearly to better clubs, as Richarlison and Gordon are very important for top half clubs and a manager got to deal with it and find solutions to fill the gap.

But It's definitely better than the 7 goals in the last 11 and 5 points overall. Then you got to question tactics and game plan righteously. Coach and players both have to take responsibility for that. Don't give free ticket for anyone there.

We had this game against West Ham with missing chances, but other games with a lot of attemps, but not many chances.

 

[hippopotamus]

No he’s not the fan boys have told us it will be different when he gets a few bob and has a Couple of windows. When he’s got the Onana, Branthwaite and Pickford money, he off to buy two attacking fullbacks, a flair number 10
Who can run with the ball and go past people. And two pacy wingers who will attack full backs, score goals and can do things off the cuff.

He doesn't even need that many new players. 2 good finishers is the only difference between him and Simeone as we know.

 

[blueboy72]

Why is recent historical context irrelevant when it has a direct impact on the present and performances - that's silly mate - you want to ignore that because it suits the point you are trying to make - "if i ignore all that" - "then what about this".

It matters because overall, this is a thread on judging performance. If i ask you to drive to Manchester and take the engine out of the car, its unfair to ask why you are late.

If you cant argue context and also tactics and formation, you are right you don't have anything for me - i mean that with all respect.

I agree, he has a job of work, he has to get a really poor unit to score and get results - thats obvious really, hes proven he can do it - hes clocked 31 points in this league, he kept one of the worst squads in the league ever to stay up for my money last year, there's nothing to suggest to me based on past record and performances given the limits hes working in, that he cant do it - we certainly have a chance within the manure storm - i dont think we get that with any one else.

I don’t think many would argue we have poor forwards and a front 4 that is bottom half prem, but is it the 2nd worst in the league?. And the worst from open play, just guessing that we have 5 more set piece goals than Sheffield Utd.

Yes we have created some good chances in games, but there’s a narrative we miss 4/5 sitters every week, which is nonsense. We had 20 shots v utd and 1 really good chance imo, the McNeil one before halftime. And that’s the case in 75% of the games. People still bring up Fulham and wolves 8 months ago. And the wolves game, again wasn’t the battering people make out, Pickford made a worldie, they missed 2 great chances, hit the woodwork and scored a goal.

I’ve said this a few times on here, but if you are only going to attack with 4 players 90% of the time, when you will be up against 6/7/8 defenders, then you’re going to struggle. If you want to play like that, personally I don’t think it will ever work, but you need pace, yet we must have the slowest wingers in the league, the one who has a bit of pace, hardly gets a look in.

 

[Neiler]

Our finishing is really bad and obviously our attacking players quality is worse than 2-3y ago. We will be in this situation to lose our best players yearly to better clubs, as Richarlison and Gordon are very important for top half clubs and a manager got to deal with it and find solutions to fill the gap.

But It's definitely better than the 7 goals in the last 11 and 5 points overall. Then you got to question tactics and game plan righteously. Coach and players both have to take responsibility for that. Don't give free ticket for anyone there.

We had this game against West Ham with missing chances, but other games with a lot of attemps, but not many chances.

Im not saying we dont have to find a way mate, i think that's fairly obvious - what im doing is providing context, in to why we struggle. Reading some of the posts on here, would make you think - that this team should just be scoring 80 goals a year if we had a different manager. That is far from the case, its an inherited problem we've struggled with for three seasons now - yet we continue to sell our best scoring players.

Im fine with lads questioning tactics etc - wed still be doing it if we were top four, i do however feel its important to add the context and variables, rathar then lay the ills of the manure show weve been through on and off the feiled and its direct result, firmly at feet of a manager keeping the club in this league and giving us a fighting chance.

Because make no mistake and this is maybe were we disagree we're poor and we're worse, off the field - this is one of the worst times holistically in the clubs history on and off the pitch. People need to view things through that lense.

 

[MikeH72]

Always the victim, its never his fault.

“I was a Seventies kid so I supported Liverpool,” he said. “My local team Kettering, Kettering Town, me and my dad used to go down and watch them, they were pretty big in the non-league scene but [I supported] Liverpool from a distance.”

Thatcher and the reds, what a combination.

 

[Neiler]

I don’t think many would argue we have poor forwards and a front 4 that is bottom half prem, but is it the 2nd worst in the league?. And the worst from open play, just guessing that we have 5 more set piece goals than Sheffield Utd.

Yes we have created some good chances in games, but there’s a narrative we miss 4/5 sitters every week, which is nonsense. We had 20 shots v utd and 1 really good chance imo, the McNeil one before halftime. And that’s the case in 75% of the games. People still bring up Fulham and wolves 8 months ago. And the wolves game, again wasn’t the battering people make out, Pickford made a worldie, they missed 2 great chances, hit the woodwork and scored a goal.

I’ve said this a few times on here, but if you are only going to attack with 4 players 90% of the time, when you will be up against 6/7/8 defenders, then you’re going to struggle. If you want to play like that, personally I don’t think it will ever work, but you need pace, yet we must have the slowest wingers in the league, the one who has a bit of pace, hardly gets a look in.

I think there are some teams below us and around us, that have better finishers mate definitely, Archer is getting in our team, Adebayo, Awoniyi, Fofana, Toney as well - not even going there with Chris Wood.

I think we've real limits, better then last season but that was an incredibly low base.

I do think we miss 4/5 sitters a game - that a competent forward finishes - at least one - i dont think ive ever seen anything like it.

I dont have a problem with lads questioning tactics, id have a few critiques myself, but i think the view is very narrow - in terms of the manure show at the club.

 

[Toffeepot]

There is a problem with finishing at the club, not in chance creation to my mind or attacking, its quality of finishing and quality overall.

Why do we lack quality in finishing, we sold a 150 mill worth of attacking players in 18 odd months - what did we think was going to happen.

I mean whats more likely, Dyche has never spoken or worked with the forwards or we sold anything that could finish in the PL for North of 150 mill and now struggle to finish chances. I dont know why people dont make more of this or understand it.

Its simple cause and effect.

Do i think a Dyche team scores more goals with Richarlison or Gordon in it and more forward options - yes i do.

While I agree with you that we are creating some chances, maybe we aren't training much in finishing moves. It's possible. Dyche was a defender, puts defending and huff & puff above all else and he just might not have shooting drills often.
Seems ridiculous saying it out loud but all managers are different. Martinez famously didn't practice set pieces which was equally ridiculous but it wasn't how he saw the game.
This Everton side are looking a lot like Dyche's Burnley, and that's what bothers me.
He's been dealt a poor hand sure, but some things have to be his responsibility

 

[Goat]

I do think we miss 4/5 sitters a game

This is a major problem with the Dyche fanboys.

They simply dont know how to tell the truth.

 

[Marius57]

Thatcher and the reds, what a combination.

No wonder a certain poster is a big fan

 

[pfim]

I think there are some teams below us and around us, that have better finishers mate definitely, Archer is getting in our team, Adebayo, Awoniyi, Fofana, Toney as well - not even going there with Chris Wood.

I think we've real limits, better then last season but that was an incredibly low base.

I do think we miss 4/5 sitters a game - that a competent forward finishes - at least one - i dont think ive ever seen anything like it.

I dont have a problem with lads questioning tactics, id have a few critiques myself, but i think the view is very narrow - in terms of the manure show at the club.

Earlier in the year perhaps. But if you're getting 18-20 shots and your xG (I know) is only 2, you're not missing sitters. It's just the aggregation of half chances that make up that number.

We have an attacking problem at the moment, not just a finishing problem.