2015 post UK election discussion

[Tubey]

Oh god, DamoEconomics in full flow

ALWND - At Least We're Not Deficit.

 

[roydo]

He'll be the handsome chap waiting on the M5's hard shoulder with the cardboard sign saying "Cheapside Jail/Goodison"......

Handsome you say.............you havnt met me yet.........

 

[ToffeeDoug]

I'm not saying Ed was wrong to resign but he might have wanted to take a bit longer to reflect on things. In England and Wales, Labour made a net gain of 15 seats (22 gains in England offset by 7 losses in England and Wales) and of the 15 gains in England, 7 were in London. Labour's vote in absolute and percentage terms did not decline on 2010 levels and probably increased and the gain in seats in England was a reasonable stab at addressing the hammering dished out to Brown in 2010. The damage / near death experience suffered in Scotland was down to reasons purely to do with the fallout from the referendum and Labour's enthusiasm then to do the Tories' work for them. In the end, how much did the election result rely on Labour's economic policy etc, in part yes, but not overwhelmingly so.

The Tories made a net gain of 28 seats, while the Lib Dems lost 49 seats, of which 11 were in Scotland. It was their loss of 38 seats in England and Wales that handed the keys to Downing St. to Cameron.

 

[daylightrobber]

I don't like that and I do understand your argument but when girls are getting pregnant to get a house and an income is that any better for the kids?

You need to look to the causes and deal with them rather than the symptoms.

 

[Clint Planet]

They love them for the same reason we should sort of like them. They're good for the economy.

Yeah, "Good for the economy" is trotted out regularly as some explains all matra. How though? Do you mean "Good for the wealthiest in society"? Because, in terms of economics, most people (the poorest, of course) in this country are worse off in real terms than they were in 2010. Not sure how "Good for the economy" helps these people.

But don't be fooled by the whole rinse the rich argument. They don't pay income tax and most can get around all forms of tax which the Tories have actually done more to clamp down on that than any Labour government.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this bit. What do you mean by "rinse the rich"? Your final sentence doesn't seem to make grammatical sense, either. Could you clarify?

 

[marty mcfly]

I think you're giving goverments too much credit. In general, but not always, government policies are pretty much tinkering with an economic cycle which is outside their control. They can make things better, or worse than they might otherwise be, but, as a rule, they don't fix or break an economy.

What governments do is decide how to spend the money which the economy generates and also try to balance out spending by increasing or decreasing debt as a proportion of GDP.

There are exceptions to the above, and when our economy wasn't so tied into everyone elses, it wasn't quite so true, but that's certainly the way it is now.

Actually I agree with that which is why I'm a libertarian. It's the control of the money supply which enivitably leads to boom and bust cycles.

However governments do play a role both in that and more generally.

 

[roydo]

I'm not saying Ed was wrong to resign but he might have wanted to take a bit longer to reflect on things

Not his greatest fan, but the speed of it did surprise me a bit, I have to say.

Like you say, other than in Scotland, it wasnt a wipe out. You can argue the toss about why he lost, but I dont think it was totally down to him.

 

[daylightrobber]

I can tell you that there are hundreds of large companies that will ship manufacturing to Europe if costs are increased due to the UK being outside the EU and therefore subject to trade tarrifs.

This is a fact.

The UK in general wants control on outofcontrol immigration

Lying polticians are confusing this issue with anti EU rhetoric.

The only EU country that hasn't grown massively economically since 1992 is Italy (that is mainly due to corruption).


The UK's finanical well being will be seriously damaged by a withdrawl from the single market. Fact.

Sorry, yep totally agree. I meant that the banks would go into meltdown at the 1st sniff of an exit. I.e. as soon as the debate started. Manufacture would follow no doubt.

 

[bizzaro]

Yes and I said I mixed them up.

The Tories have increased the debt exponentially since taking power. Hardly sound economics thus far. And I fail to see how crippling the lower classes for £12bn is going to be the cornerstone of turning that around.

The COALITION couldn't just abandon the 2010 spending plans entirely. Its ridiculous to say they could and debt wouldn't increase further. They've also been subject to global events in the past 5 years. Like the slow down in Europe and in Asia.

The fact is Tubey the poor are going to pay for the excesses and false promises made by policitians in the late 1990's and 2000's, because the country has to reduce the deficit.

Its not unreasonable for voters to want economic competitence in a government. Or not want false promises that the country can't afford.Which is what certain politicians offered in the past.

 

[marty mcfly]

Yes and I said I mixed them up.

The Tories have increased the debt exponentially since taking power. Hardly sound economics thus far. And I fail to see how crippling the lower classes for £12bn is going to be the cornerstone of turning that around.

No if they had of increased it exponentially then the deficit would be going up. It's actually going down.

 

[Tubey]

The COALLITION couldn't just abandon the 2010 spending plans entirely. Its ridiculous to say they could and debt wouldn't increase further. They've also been subject to global events in the past 5 years. Like the slow down in Europe and in Asia.

The fact is Tubey the poor are going to pay for the excesses and false promises made by policitians in the late 1990's and 2000's, because the country has to reduce the deficit.

Its not unreasonable for voters to want economic competitence in a government. Or not want false promises that the country can't afford.Which is what certain politicians offered in the past.

I'm not doing this - I've just remembered you're Matt Damon and had a horrible flashback to 2011.

 

[bigbadjeff]

Simply devastated

How could anyone vote for them after the last 5 years

As I have said, people say one thing to pollsters, but when you are in that box voting, you look after No 1. Is purely human nature.

 

[bizzaro]

I think they'll more likely move here since the regulation will be less. Again we'll see.

I think people should vote what they believe. Are you more British or European. Do you want to be run by Brussels or London?

That's the choice and let the rest work itself out.

Banks maybe. But you still will need to comply with the regulation of the EU single market in order to sell in it - which will be more difficult outside of it.

The only ones who will get richer then are bankers.

This is why I think sensibler heads will prevail in the debate before then and the EU commission will see sense and give the UK what it wants. Power over borders.

 

[bizzaro]

I'm not doing this - I've just remembered you're Matt Damon and had a horrible flashback to 2011.

This looks like you've lost the debate and are waiving a white flag.

Good you admitted you got the statement of the deficit rising - wrong.

It was a terrible blunder you made.

 

[marty mcfly]

I'm not saying Ed was wrong to resign but he might have wanted to take a bit longer to reflect on things. In England and Wales, Labour made a net gain of 15 seats (22 gains in England offset by 7 losses in England and Wales) and of the 15 gains in England, 7 were in London. Labour's vote in absolute and percentage terms did not decline on 2010 levels and probably increased and the gain in seats in England was a reasonable stab at addressing the hammering dished out to Brown in 2010. The damage / near death experience suffered in Scotland was down to reasons purely to do with the fallout from the referendum and Labour's enthusiasm then to do the Tories' work for them. In the end, how much did the election result rely on Labour's economic policy etc, in part yes, but not overwhelmingly so.

The Tories made a net gain of 28 seats, while the Lib Dems lost 49 seats, of which 11 were in Scotland. It was their loss of 38 seats in England and Wales that handed the keys to Downing St. to Cameron.

Yea but why did Lib Dem voters not vote Labour?

They either choose to vote either conservative or UKIP. Two right wing parties.

Answer : They didn't trust Labour on the economy.