2015 post UK election discussion

[Bruce Wayne]

You cannot deny that the press have an enormous influence in voters. That's how this election was won.

No idea to be honest. Research I've read on this sort of thing suggests we tend to find news that fits our pre-existing opinions rather than the news influencing our malleable perspectives.

I don't read any newspapers (unless you count the Economist as a newspaper) so have made my ill judged vote purely on my own

 

[Woolly Blue]

It's true, read on... http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens

I'm just stating a fact - again, look at the practicalities of trickle down economic theory and you'll see what I mean. The rich simply get richer.

Yea, but that's not hoarding it, that's maximising their returns. In fact you've just validated what @Adversus said about them moving their cash all over the world.

 

[Seanjd]

Well - It is developing markets for us to sell into but yea we're not seeing the full benifits.

It also doesn't help importing a load of cheap labour which is also the main reason it's not helping here.

Insourcing and Outsourcing are the two issues we should be looking to tackle.

I think it's wrong to suggest that the rich getting richer is good for the poor. It isn't.

 

[Tubey]

Yea, but that's not hoarding it, that's maximising their returns. In fact you've just validated what @Adversus said about them moving their cash all over the world.

I didn't deny that - what I said was it wasn't being invested into anything else, like third world development.

"These estimates reveal a staggering failure," says John Christensen of the Tax Justice Network. "Inequality is much, much worse than official statistics show, but politicians are still relying on trickle-down to transfer wealth to poorer people.

"This new data shows the exact opposite has happened: for three decades extraordinary wealth has been cascading into the offshore accounts of a tiny number of super-rich."

That's the reality of the situation. Do I blame them? Absolutely not! There is an advantage and they've taken it fully - but it is proven that trickle down simply does not happen or practically exist.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

And I think we've ascertained that the British public are thickies who can't be trusted with anything.

100%, you'll get no arguments from me, the capping of help to aid the disabled Get into work tells you all that you need to know about what lays ahead, even Satan himself would not cut support to people who really need help to try to live a normal life.

If you are a Tory Bruce, which is the impression you give on here, I hope you see why the likes of me don't like the way the Tories operate.

I am better off under the Tories by the way, I run a very profitable business.

 

[marty mcfly]

Your last last statement can go either way though can't it. Last election Tories couldn't get a majority even with the most unpopular Labour leader if all time. This time around, Labour have proven to be even less popular and Tories can only just scrape a majority. I can't see labour winning in the next 15 years though.

As for your point about Balls and the economy, I don't think that's true. The election was lost for many reasons, namely a Scottish wipeout and a scaremongering right wing press. People bought into the Scottish scare factor.

After 5 years of Austerity and only having enough for a Coalition Labour should have won a majority negating any need for the SNP playing a role.

You're right, that's how the vote went but it was lost the minute the other Miliband wasn't elected.

 

[Seanjd]

After 5 years of Austerity and only having enough for a Coalition Labour should have won a majority negating any need for the SNP playing a role.

You're right, that's how the vote went but it was lost the minute the other Miliband wasn't elected.

David would have failed more than Ed - just imagine the Iraq smear he would have received.

 

[Woolly Blue]

I didn't deny that - what I said was it wasn't being invested into anything else, like third world development.

"These estimates reveal a staggering failure," says John Christensen of the Tax Justice Network. "Inequality is much, much worse than official statistics show, but politicians are still relying on trickle-down to transfer wealth to poorer people.

"This new data shows the exact opposite has happened: for three decades extraordinary wealth has been cascading into the offshore accounts of a tiny number of super-rich."

That's the reality of the situation. Do I blame them? Absolutely not! There is an advantage and they've taken it fully - but it is proven that trickle down simply does not happen or practically exist.

Oh, there's a lot of truth in the fact that the trickle down effect isn't very effective so, in that respect, we agree.

But when you say something like

They don't invest it mate - they hoard it.

you dilute your argument because it's poorly worded, or, in old money, just wrong. What you mean is "They don't invest it in things which I think are worthwhile and beneficial to society", which I'd agree with.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

100%, you'll get no arguments from me, the capping of help to aid the disabled Get into work tells you all that you need to know about what lays ahead, even Satan himself would not cut support to people who really need help to try to live a normal life.

If you are a Tory Bruce, which is the impression you give on here, I hope you see why the likes of me don't like the way the Tories operate.

I am better off under the Tories by the way, I run a very profitable business.

I'm actually a liberal so was that one person that voted Lib Dem. Alas my efforts weren't enough to save Simon Hughes.

 

[marty mcfly]

I didn't deny that - what I said was it wasn't being invested into anything else, like third world development.

"These estimates reveal a staggering failure," says John Christensen of the Tax Justice Network. "Inequality is much, much worse than official statistics show, but politicians are still relying on trickle-down to transfer wealth to poorer people.

"This new data shows the exact opposite has happened: for three decades extraordinary wealth has been cascading into the offshore accounts of a tiny number of super-rich."

That's the reality of the situation. Do I blame them? Absolutely not! There is an advantage and they've taken it fully - but it is proven that trickle down simply does not happen or practically exist.

They don't invest it mate - they hoard it.

You jokingly made the Scrooge McDuck comment - essentially, yes, that's what happens.

It doesn't stay there. Money is illusionary.

It doesn't really exist and certainly doesn't stay in one bank in a big vault. Any money that goes into a bank goes back out. If it's a high street bank it goes on mortgages which are used to build houses or loans to small businesses. If it's an international investment bank it goes on all sorts of business and development projects like new factories around the world.

It also gets loaned to governments to pay for public services

 

[Seanjd]

Oh, there's a lot of truth in the fact that the trickle down effect isn't very effective so, in that respect, we agree.

But when you say something like you dilute your argument because it's poorly worded, or, in old money, just wrong. What you mean is "They don't invest it in things which I think are worthwhile and beneficial to society", which I'd agree with.

I would agree completely with Tubey. You might not like the wording of it, but that's what the rich do - they hoard it. They do it through not paying tax by using offshore accounts. This is hoarding money, money which otherwise would be used to pay for services we rely on such as welfare.

 

[The Mighty Quint]

I'm actually a liberal so was that one person that voted Lib Dem. Alas my efforts weren't enough to save Simon Hughes.

I've been on the dole, claimed housing, touch wood not since the late 90's, but I know how it feels, and that's shaped my attitude in life, 95% who need state help don't want it, it's a necessity, that's something the Tories fail to see or have empathy with.

 

[Seanjd]

Money is illusionary. It doesn't really exist

Tell that to your single parent earning the minimum wage. You are simply excusing mass scale tax avoidance by saying the money doesn't exist.

 

[Deggo]

I don't see what that has to do with anything that I was talking about

Pull up the draw bridge I'm ok,that's what you sounded like,the Tory mindset

 

[SNova]

They don't invest it mate - they hoard it.