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2015 post UK election discussion

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Clint Planet said:
The thing is, that's simply not true. They very much did appeal to the centre ground if polling about the most important issues is to be believed - and yet they didn't get in. Sadly, the Right owns so much of the mass media these days (in particular Sky News, The Sun, The Times, The Telegraph and the Daily Mail) that appealing to the centre ground isn't enough. You can have pretty popular policies and yet still be characterised as "Loony Left."
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Spot on. As if a Miliband Labour is left wing, yet 'Red Ed' was bandied about like nobody's business.
 
Adversus said:
The super rich don't get rich of the back of anyone. Bill Gates didn't get rich of the back of anyone. Neither did Steve Jobs etc

The super rich get rich of their own ability. Granted not everyone is capable of that and the super rich should be doing more but neither party is going to go after them. They simply can't but if it did the money would instead go into our economy rather than internationally meaning the world would never improve and we would continue to live of the backs of the really poor in the world - just like during the colonial days.

However you also don't improve the economy by creating a load of new university places to give people degrees that are worthless because the students aren't capable to do those jobs when they come out or the degree is pointless.

If Labour where practically driven and not idelogically driven they would have invested in apprentiships.

Why instead of trying to shame people actually open yourself up to the arguments and practical global results and stop trying to assume everyone who is rich or supports those policies is evil.
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Of course they can - 50p top rate for a start. Then re-invest that in services so the infrastructure of the country is strong. That again is not me being socialist; that's just me asking the rich to pay their fair share and not 8% less net. It causes problems as the rich/poor divide grows and it becomes an economic issue, which hurts production.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/rich-americans-hoarding-cash_n_3720941.html

"It's a real problem," Michael Linden, the Center for American Progress' managing director for economic policy, said of the wealthy's propensity to save and not spend, "to the extent that more and more income is going to people at the top and more of that income is not going to places that are productive."

And remember, those are disclosed figures, not after offshore taxing.
 
Tubey said:
Of course they can - 50p top rate for a start. Then re-invest that in services so the infrastructure of the country is strong. That again is not me being socialist; that's just me asking the rich to pay their fair share and not 8% less net. It causes problems as the rich/poor divide grows and it becomes an economic issue, which hurts production.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/rich-americans-hoarding-cash_n_3720941.html

"It's a real problem," Michael Linden, the Center for American Progress' managing director for economic policy, said of the wealthy's propensity to save and not spend, "to the extent that more and more income is going to people at the top and more of that income is not going to places that are productive."
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Mate its friday night.

The election was yesterday.

The footy is on tomorrow.
 

bring the ghost on said:
Well obviously the poor contribute less overall, because they earn less!

Measuring how much tax you pay as a percentage of your income is the only fair way of determining whether you are paying your fair share of, as is the case with the poorest 10%, a disproportionate amount of tax.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/jun/16/british-public-wrong-rich-poor-tax-research
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I also quoted the US figure that the bottom 50% pay 3% even though they earn 13%.

Here's a page from the mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...L-income-tax-half-country-contributes-10.html

Depends who you believe.
 
Adversus said:
The super rich don't get rich of the back of anyone. Bill Gates didn't get rich of the back of anyone. Neither did Steve Jobs etc

The super rich get rich of their own ability. Granted not everyone is capable of that and the super rich should be doing more but neither party is going to go after them. They simply can't but if it did the money would instead go into our economy rather than internationally meaning the world would never improve and we would continue to live of the backs of the really poor in the world - just like during the colonial days.

However you also don't improve the economy by creating a load of new university places to give people degrees that are worthless because the students aren't capable to do those jobs when they come out or the degree is pointless.

If Labour where practically driven and not idelogically driven they would have invested in apprentiships.

Why instead of trying to shame people actually open yourself up to the arguments and practical global results and stop trying to assume everyone who is rich or supports those policies is evil.
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So Gates and Jobs never depended on employees or customers. OK!
 

Adversus said:
I also quoted the US figure that the bottom 50% pay 3% even though they earn 13%.

Here's a page from the mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...L-income-tax-half-country-contributes-10.html

Depends who you believe.
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Both figures are right - the Mail haven't looked at it as a proportion of overall income.

Of course the rich pay more as they have more, but as a proportion of their wealth they pay 8% less.

If earning money is a level playing field and everyone is only limited by their hard work, which is the Tory idealist mantra, why are you punished if you start off on the lower rungs?
 
Adversus said:
The super rich don't get rich of the back of anyone. Bill Gates didn't get rich of the back of anyone. Neither did Steve Jobs etc

The super rich get rich of their own ability. Granted not everyone is capable of that and the super rich should be doing more but neither party is going to go after them. They simply can't but if it did the money would instead go into our economy rather than internationally meaning the world would never improve and we would continue to live of the backs of the really poor in the world - just like during the colonial days.

However you also don't improve the economy by creating a load of new university places to give people degrees that are worthless because the students aren't capable to do those jobs when they come out or the degree is pointless.

If Labour where practically driven and not idelogically driven they would have invested in apprentiships.

Why instead of trying to shame people actually open yourself up to the arguments and practical global results and stop trying to assume everyone who is rich or supports those policies is evil.
Click to expand...

Why so many words when only one would do?

Starting with B, ending S.
 
Tubey said:
What a stupid statement - it isn't greed to keep the money you've earned; it's greed to keep the money you haven't earned by evading tax that other people fairly pay.
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You still earn the money that you then have to pay in tax.

Without you earning it there would be no tax.
 

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