5 games to go - as good as it gets or can it be maintained?

[bluestevon]

What are we talking about here exactly position wise for this to represent 'more than a blip'? A couple of back-to-back 5th place finishes is the only thing that would represent a difference (and a small one) to what's gone before, because I'm pretty sure we've managed two periods in the last decade when we've finished 5th or 6th for three seasons running.

Since 88 mate we've only once ever managed three seasons in a row of finishing in the top 5-6 (not two periods), noticeably that period stopped the season after City had their investment and 'officially' joined the top teams in spending power.

Also you cannot ignore that Spurs have gone from the likes of Tim Sherwood, Redknapp, Jol - to a Pocchetino
Liverpool have gone from Hodgson, Dalglish, Rodgers to Klopp
City from Hughes to Guardiola
Chelsea, United both have absolutely top class managers

It's only Arsenal with Wenger who haven't got what i'd call currently a top quality manager.

Finishing top 5/6 in the mid 00's wasn't set against the backdrop of the way 6 teams have exponentially pulled further and further away from the rest of the league financially (and most starkly seen in wages paid).

Spurs did it brilliantly, they got the team on the shoulder of the 'top 4' and waited for the chance to break into that group =- and it came just before the last big set of manager merry go around happened, they broke into the group and then solidified during a lot of new managers bedding in periods. Now they are undoubtedly a part of that group at least for the near future at least.

Ultimately i don't think Koeman is going to be winning league titles with us mate, what i do hope though is that by the time he leaves we are able to attract the next manager who is capable of doing that - and maybe that will be in a new stadium with our wages and financial deals at the club a lot closer to the other teams who can contest it, it's all about seeing a real progress on and off the field and seeing the club becoming a 'big club' again in actions and performance

 

[Mikeonlythebestwilldo]

Is it too much to ask to stay on topic?

All those issues are for other threads.

This is about whether this is the highpoint of the season....and, perhaps as a rider to that question, and in the event of Lukaku's sale, whether this could be the highpoint of the next few seasons.

You go off topic yourself mate ! Anyroad 5 games left to play coyb

 

[bicycleheader]

There is no Top 7. It;'s bas enough with the media trying to talk up a ridiculous "Top 6" category without extending the numbers beyond that to the, quite frankly, ridiculous. There's a top 4 that get the CL spots. Then there's usually a team from the pack that's in amongst the challengers as an outside chance for a CL spot. That's what traditionally happens each season and that's where Everton fit in this season...just as it's where Everton have fitted in for 6 of the past 11 seasons.

There's nothing new here. Its part of a trend.

It is part of a trend, and if its all Koeman brings to the table then of course me, you and some other posters would have been right about him.

However in the context of whats gone before in the past two seasons, THIS season has been a job well done with plenty of things to be positive about. I think really the difference between where we are now and really challenging top 4 would be changing the mentality in the big games and getting better quality and consistency in our attack. Our defence needs work, but I think money spent on some more brains up front would have made a big difference in many games where we had good attacking possession and good counter attack positions but it all breaks down with a bad pass or decision.

Anyways, come on Brom, Boro and Chelsea.

 

[davek]

Since 88 mate we've only once ever managed three seasons in a row of finishing in the top 5-6 (not two periods), noticeably that period stopped the season after City had their investment and 'officially' joined the top teams in spending power.

Ok. Meant to say two periods of back to back seasons at 5th or 6th. Seasons 2006/7-2008/09 inclusive, btw, were in the middle of that period City got their cash windfall and spent big in the first full season. And we went 6th and then 5th in the changeover from Moyes to Martinez. Oh, and we had a couple of back to back 5th spots under Myes.

Now in those periods we never thought it was anything special...that's becuase it wasn't. And I'm not going to start thinking it so now. Worthy? Yes. But no more than that.

Given we have a lot more security financially speaking now finishing in the 5th-7th category should be viewed with even less content.

In short: there'll be NO moving of goal posts from me on what constitutes our arriving at the top table, and 6th and 7th finishes certainly wont cut it.

 

[Mikeonlythebestwilldo]

It is part of a trend, and if its all Koeman brings to the table then of course me, you and some other posters would have been right about him.

However in the context of whats gone before in the past two seasons, THIS season has been a job well done with plenty of things to be positive about. I think really the difference between where we are now and really challenging top 4 would be changing the mentality in the big games and getting better quality and consistency in our attack. Our defence needs work, but I think money spent on some more brains up front would have made a big difference in many games where we had good attacking possession and good counter attack positions but it all breaks down with a bad pass or decision.

Anyways, come on Brom, Boro and Chelsea.

Exactly mate

 

[Niapper]

With our current squad, 7th seems probable.

 

[davek]

It is part of a trend, and if its all Koeman brings to the table then of course me, you and some other posters would have been right about him.

However in the context of whats gone before in the past two seasons, THIS season has been a job well done with plenty of things to be positive about. I think really the difference between where we are now and really challenging top 4 would be changing the mentality in the big games and getting better quality and consistency in our attack. Our defence needs work, but I think money spent on some more brains up front would have made a big difference in many games where we had good attacking possession and good counter attack positions but it all breaks down with a bad pass or decision.

Anyways, come on Brom, Boro and Chelsea.

That;s the point though, why stop at two seasons back? The context has to be wider than that to get a grip of where we are and what we've done.

It's been a decent season so far, no question.

If 5th can be maintained this season that's a place better off than I'd envisaged. The question of the thread is whether that can be maintained.

 

[bicycleheader]

Our defence has gone from one of the worst in the league to among the best.

In no way has Williams been disappointing.

I would say Williams has been very disappointing.

Its fine you disagree, but its strange to say in no way when I'm pretty sure many fans would agree he hasn't been great. I actually think Funes Moris previous rep for being a liability meant he got more focus on him whilst Williams was producing many similar performances.

I'd agree with Dave and say that us sitting deeper, adding more numbers has helped the defence. Which is fine, its still the managers decision which is working....however individually and as a team I still think we look far from solid. Easily got at down the wing and I'm still fearful for every corner/fk. Doesn't matter too much though as it's only Koemans first season, and I am sure next season we will be analysing a very very different defence.

 

[bicycleheader]

That;s the point though, why stop at two seasons back? The context has to be wider than that to get a grip of where we are and what we've done.

It's been a decent season so far, no question.

If 5th can be maintained this season that's a place better off than I'd envisaged. The question of the thread is whether that can be maintained.

Because the two season dip is the previous trend. This is now a start of a new trend and its been a good recovery. Expected really, but good.

 

[bicycleheader]

That;s the point though, why stop at two seasons back? The context has to be wider than that to get a grip of where we are and what we've done.

It's been a decent season so far, no question.

If 5th can be maintained this season that's a place better off than I'd envisaged. The question of the thread is whether that can be maintained.

Im talking about finishing 5th-7th THIS season Dave. good recovery.

You are right that Koeman doing the same for 3 years would not mean an awful lot as it is kind of par for the course for us......but this season bucks a recent trend.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Man Utd will finish 5th, we'll finish 6th.

Arsenal are nosediving down the league. We're nailed on to upset Wenger's last game, too.

 

[bicycleheader]

Man Utd will finish 5th, we'll finish 6th.

Arsenal are nosediving down the league. We're nailed on to upset Wenger's last game, too.

I wouldnt say nailed on, as its a big away game and there might be something at stake.

Id be inclined to expect a loss, or disappointing draw in those circumstances.

Hopefully Koeman can do more in those situations going forward.

 

[davek]

Because the two season dip is the previous trend. This is now a start of a new trend and its been a good recovery. Expected really, but good.

Why is it the trend only at that point? It's arbitrary.

 

[bicycleheader]

Why is it the trend only at that point? It's arbitrary.

see next post, stop trying to see spin in my post when there isnt any.

 

[maccavennie]

Basically that isn't it mate, the Derby realistically put to bed the chance of top 4 unless something really bizarre happens, think the teams and order of the top 7 right now is how it'll finish, especially if the rs win today then United lose then they're gonna jib the league off, as for arsenal - they're done and fully expect it'll be shown when they manage to lose points in 5-6 more this year.

Part of me sees the rs next four games being away at west brom home to big fat sams palace then away at Watford though and then home against saints and wonders if they could have another January like set of results coming...

hahaha your like me mate, still a little glimmer of hope inside saying the rs could still beautifully implode and we will be there waiting in the wings

bloody hell if we'd just turned up even 60% in the Derby they'd be absolutely bricking it now.