5 games to go - as good as it gets or can it be maintained?

[JonS]

...
no standout breakthrough talent other than Davies, and to be honest that lad will never be top class either...

Whaaaat? He's practically top class already

 

[willo30]

...and out of them only Rooney and Barkley are true stand out talents. That's not to say lesser talents cant play a role, but I'd rather we kept introducing players like Dowell and see what they can offer. Imo out of those I've seen Dowell has something special - a bit out the ordinary.

I also like the idea of buying youngsters as well. Holgate looks a player, Lookman maybe, I'm still sure theres a player in Galloway somewhere and DCL I've not seen enough of yet.

 

[Thomasc]

It's all about mentality, the players should have been looking at the run in as a free swing pressure free to chase down the top 6. Instead we all knew they'd choke at Anfield, even when ahead most of us would have put our houses on them letting it slip v United and since Leicester we've pretty much turned up to every away game thinking a point is ok. Top 4 that does not maketh but then most of this squad have a nose bleed at the thought of finishing above 7th. New players with better mentality needed.

Since Schneiderlin and Davies came into the side, the latter after the Leicester away game you mention, we have lost 2 games in 15, away at 2 teams above us, won 1 and drawn 5 away games.

I think to just label them all bottlers and question their mentality is very harsh, unless your expectations are that we should automatically win every game, in which case I would suggest you don't live in a real world, it is a very, very competitive league with a couple of stand out sides in Chelsea and Spurs this season.

Its all fine margins, an example being the game at Anfield, which we were just getting back into when Holgate and then Robles had brain farts and the game was effectively gone.

Yes we could make the side stronger with better players, which team couldn't? Nothing like stating the obvious.

 

[JonS]

Thing is though mate, you have to go for it every match - three points. Koeman for me is too conservative away from home, more especially against the better teams.

You have to roll the dice to get CL points totals and that's not in him. He's a bit like Moyes: too concerned with avoiding a hiding from one of the big boys.

I don't think he's conservative away against the lesser teams (think it's the players cocking up) but against the better teams I agree he can be a bit and needs to go all out to match and beat them

 

[bluestevon]

Only one of those injuries came early enough in the season to be meaningful...and even that one could be said to have helped the situation by clarifying a game plan other than booting it long and downfield to Bolasie.

We were fortunate with injuries and suspensions this season. That's the truth of the matter.


I question the standard of these players. We can have twice the number of youngsters getting first team game time but IMO there is no standout breakthrough talent other than Davies, and to be honest that lad will never be top class either.

far better to have one or two start to come through who are going to be key for the progression of the club.

Kenny just needs the chance mate, i feel sure if he gets it then he will take it. same for the likes of Williams, Walsh, Dowell etc who haven't been given the chance yet this season, rewind your comment 6 months back and could say the same about Davies not being good enough when he hadnt had the chance, got the chance and took it, hopefully 1 or 2 more will be able to do similar.

Holgate i'd say has impressed this season, a few games as well where he will have learned a lot from - which ultimately is what seperates the best from the rest (IF he does learn from them)

 

[davek]

all good points Dave and I think Koeman will be as frustrated as anyone with our away form. I think we will see a big shift next season where we become a lot more aggressive away from home and really look to take the game to the opposition.

Apart from the odd away win, I've always felt our side have been timid away from home going on 25 years now, just like we have a mental block against the so called big teams away I believe we just have a mental block full stop on away games. So many games over the years where we literally just haven't turned up and about 8/9 players just don't seem up to it.

Last 10 seasons have seen only three standout away records:

2007/08 = 8 away wins
2008/09 = 9 away wins
2013/14 = 8 away wins

The rest have been 4 and 5 wins...which we are bang on course for again this season.

A great away match record can be done. Even under a cautious manager like Moyes it could be done.

Koeman did better away from home with S'ton, so he can do it too...if he can handle the expectation levels at Everton and not set up to stave off defeat away from home to good teams...which is what happened this season as well as being clueless to break down the likes of Burnley, Boro, Hull etc.

 

[davek]

All fair points Dave, one thing is for sure, whilst we have found a system and way of playing at home that is producing results (and by and large entertaining performances as well), away from home it looks like we are just blindly trying various things and personnel and hoping that something works.
We lack the ability to set up as a counter attacking team - because basically if Ross or Rom (or both) have an off day, then we have absolutely no one in the team to provide threat on the break (especially now that Mirallas hammies have cost him the pace he used to have), we aren't good enough technically throughout the team to just go and dominate the game on the front foot away from home, and we are too slow at the back to press from the front with a high line.

To play any of those ways will need us to go out and get 3-4 players who can facilitate that system.

For us going forward now, hope we just decide to give a couple of the more promising young players a good look at in the remaining games, especially Kenny

Come the summer we badly need to rebuild the entire defence, and add pace throughout the squad, and someone who can actually get on the ball and link up between midfield and Lukaku

I think that's key. You do need to feel confident that you wont get done by committing more numbers to attack.

We need a clear out at the back. Williams we have to cut our losses on and get rid imo, as he's way too slow and he wont accept bench time I dont suppose; Mori has errors in him; Jagielka is only getting older and slower and Baines and coleman aren't the best at covering or positionally good. Holgate as CB? Maybe. Galloway he obviously does not fancy. And the GK's aren't exactly the types that give defences confidence.

 

[davek]

Whaaaat? He's practically top class already

Nah. He's got a very good attitude and he works hard. There's a bit more to him than that, of course, he keeps play ticking over, but he's not ever making a leap out of a certain functional level of PL standard play.

 

[davek]

I also like the idea of buying youngsters as well. Holgate looks a player, Lookman maybe, I'm still sure theres a player in Galloway somewhere and DCL I've not seen enough of yet.

Yes. And for that reason I think you can add Stones to Rooney and Barkley. He's a poor defender at the minute but there is something there that is capable of being a top talent operating in maybe a different role.

 

[davek]

Kenny just needs the chance mate, i feel sure if he gets it then he will take it. same for the likes of Williams, Walsh, Dowell etc who haven't been given the chance yet this season, rewind your comment 6 months back and could say the same about Davies not being good enough when he hadnt had the chance, got the chance and took it, hopefully 1 or 2 more will be able to do similar.

Holgate i'd say has impressed this season, a few games as well where he will have learned a lot from - which ultimately is what seperates the best from the rest (IF he does learn from them)

Back end of this season and pre-season: that period should have/should be given over to sifting through what we have on our hands.

We've learned a lot this season, you're right. For me though we've learned we have maybe one or two who can make a career at Everton but wont be star players.

Time to get the next batch through and see what else we can find out.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Since Schneiderlin and Davies came into the side, the latter after the Leicester away game you mention, we have lost 2 games in 15, away at 2 teams above us, won 1 and drawn 5 away games.

I think to just label them all bottlers and question their mentality is very harsh, unless your expectations are that we should automatically win every game, in which case I would suggest you don't live in a real world, it is a very, very competitive league with a couple of stand out sides in Chelsea and Spurs this season.

Its all fine margins, an example being the game at Anfield, which we were just getting back into when Holgate and then Robles had brain farts and the game was effectively gone.

Yes we could make the side stronger with better players, which team couldn't? Nothing like stating the obvious.

Draws in away games isn't good enough if you want top 4. That's the truth sadly. We need to convert a few to wins. There's always an excuse ready and waiting for these players, that's the problem though. How many times have we said 'since x date we've been great apart from these 2 games, next season if we play like this we'll be top 4'. Never happens though. I'd rather lose a few more but win a few more.

 

[Thomasc]

Draws in away games isn't good enough if you want top 4. That's the truth sadly. We need to convert a few to wins. There's always an excuse ready and waiting for these players, that's the problem though. How many times have we said 'since x date we've been great apart from these 2 games, next season if we play like this we'll be top 4'. Never happens though. I'd rather lose a few more but win a few more.

I understand where you are coming from, but that will come eventually. I think he will move onto the next level of improving the side and thus our approach to games.

I have every confidence Koeman is a winner and wants to do good things. He isn't here for an easy ride and will mould a side which will play without any fear.

 

[Carlito]

I think that's key. You do need to feel confident that you wont get done by committing more numbers to attack.

We need a clear out at the back. Williams we have to cut our losses on and get rid imo, as he's way too slow and he wont accept bench time I dont suppose; Mori has errors in him; Jagielka is only getting older and slower and Baines and coleman aren't the best at covering or positionally good. Holgate as CB? Maybe. Galloway he obviously does not fancy. And the GK's aren't exactly the types that give defences confidence.

In Koeman's defence, he's done a reasonably good job of cutting deadwood so far.

I do, however, fear that we're stuck with Williams for at least another year. Hopefully a more mobile partner will be found over the summer.

 

[davek]

In Koeman's defence, he's done a reasonably good job of cutting deadwood so far.

I do, however, fear that we're stuck with Williams for at least another year. Hopefully a more mobile partner will be found over the summer.

Imo he cut Deulofeu out way too early. We needed his creativity and pace off the bench at the very least. I dont think it's unreasonable to suggest we might be 4/5 points better off if we'd had him to turn to this season at key moments. And Galloway and Oviedo being loaned out/sold was a ridiculous couple of decisions when we had no cover at LB.

 

[Carlito]

Imo he cut Deulofeu out way too early. We needed his creativity and pace off the bench at the very least. I dont think it's unreasonable to suggest we might be 4/5 points better off if we'd had him to turn to this season at key moments. And Galloway and Oviedo being loaned out/sold was a ridiculous couple of decisions when we had no cover at LB.

No argument from me regarding Deulofeu. He should have been persisted with.