6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Exeter_Gently]

It doesn't involve something being categorically proven it is based on the balance of probabilities.

What you are suggesting is that athletes shouldn't be punished for taking performance-enhancing drugs because the advantage they give an athlete can't be quantified. Pretending we didn't gain an advantage because we spent the money badly would be like an PED athlete claiming the drugs didn't matter because they didn't train properly.

The truth is we could have easily gotten within P&S limits but we chose not to because we wanted to stay up.

Another one for the helmet list.

 

[Blue peter]

View attachment 236209

I’m not sure that it is with the sole focus of picking on Everton because it’s Everton…..that suggests it’s a trial punishment and that they had no confidence on its workability…which gives me confidence for an appeal.

 

[Exeter_Gently]

If not anything else, it seems to prove that we're not paranoid conspiracy theorists. There really does appear to be an agenda against us.

Correct...I seen post last week suggesting we shouldn't buy into the paranoia and the anti Everton agenda was purley for the tin foil hat brigade...after all the nonsense that's come out along the past couple of days it's hard to think anything else.

 

[sbbefc]

Leaves a bad taste teaming up with Chelsea, Man City and Newcastle.

Would leave a bad taste teaming up with United and Liverpool too.

 

[Bez2k2k]

Correct...I seen post last week suggesting we shouldn't buy into the paranoia and the anti Everton agenda was purley for the tin foil hat brigade...after all the nonsense that's come out along the past couple of days it's hard to think anything else.

Said it for years. Since the war in Ukraine the Premier League have wanted us out. Russian ownership, we have been a thorn in their side for years. They have tried to relegate us, there have been far too many dodgy decisions go against us. This is just another way of them trying to get us out of their hair and into the championship.

 

[Bez2k2k]

This will run for years yet, and we won't know whether our punishment - changed or not - was anywhere near fair until City, Chelsea and whoever else get theirs.

City need to be having their titles stripped and kicked out of the league at minimum. Obviously that won't happen, so it's already safe to say we've been incredibly harshly treated.

The fact they're allowed to continue building their wealth and success and setting themselves up for generations to come with this having already lingered for years is sickening.

It can’t run for years.

 

[Evertonthat]

As a leeds fan, I think I have 4 takes on this.

1 - The 10 pts mean very little this year. There are 3 terrible teams in the league, you'll stay up with 30 points probably. Can't see the penalty resulting in relegation.

2 - You broke FFP. You did so knowingly and then tried to cover it up with dodgy accounting. The penalty is fair enough - You got caught and lied about it. Suck it up.

3 - Your big problem isnt the 10 pts, its Burnley and Leicester. Leeds, Southampton etc.....have very small claims, which amount to a couple of million for being 'cheated' out of a place in the league, but neither resulted in a substantial impact. Burnley and Leicester however..........You could easily be looking at a couple of hundred million compensation and all the fun and games that come with that.

4 - This is for the 21-22 season. Your still not compliant with FFP today, so need to fix that pronto or you'll be proper hammered. As a result, there is an urgent need to sell players and reduce the wage bill - and forget about strengthening. I think this (and the 3rd point) are your main issues. The 10 pts won't mean a whole lot and is short term - a big compensation bill and a wage bill that is hugely out of kilter with your revenue are longer term problems that could bury you for a good long time.

Point 1, that's not our fault. There were 3 worse teams than us last year also, and the year before.

Point 2, several unprecedented events also massively affected the accounts including covid, a war resulting in the loss of our major sponsor and a string of events resulting in the loss of players that had been heavily invested in. We are not the only club in the Premier league who have had to operate close to the wind, especially when you factor in trying to build a 700M stadium without loaning fron the outset.

Point 3, any claims they have will be with the Premier league. Its them who have decided on the time and quantity of any penalty. The penalty affects this season, not last and thats the decision of the premier league, not Everton. Its impossible to quantify when and how points can be deducted over a 3 year period and impossible to say how it affects other teams. Roll it all the way back to 2020/21 when we finished 10th if you want. It will mean we finished 11th instead and affected only 1 team by 1 place.

Point 4, our net spend is 3rd lowest of any team in the Premier league over the last 5 years, and that includes several teams who have been relegated. We will continue to strengthen in the same way we have for 3 seasons now, by selling our better players and buying players on lower wages amortisating the cost over 3 or 4 years. We also loan players where possible (thanks for Jack by the way ).

 

[Jacko93]

You put forward a decent argument but why can't it be both at the same time? I think it's a grey area. Team X has more financial pull so therefore, in theory, they are able to compete for the best players. That, in theory is a sporting advantage and a financial advantage. I don't think they are mutually exclusive.

Fact is, it is sport and there's clubs at at every level throughout the league that would have claim to both financial and sporting advantage over others. For example, those teams that get relegated clearly have an advantage over others as they get relegation payments that other teams in the Championship don't.

Then we could look at the Wrexham example. They clearly have more financial muscle than say Notts County. Notts County are putting up a brave fight of competing with them though but I'd still say that Wrexham had a sporting and financial advantage over them and possible most teams in their league.

But you are missing my point entirely. Financial advantage can be quantified, by way of simply counting money, sporting advantage cannot. Thete are far too many factors in sporting advantage to make any assumption of outcome. There is a broad alignment with the richest clubs finishing in the higher positions, and in most seasons the position a team finishes is within 2 or 3 places of the "wage league", but you cannot make assumption of outcome based upon that because it is not linear. This is why any attempt to sue Everton will fail in my opinion, as you cant say, Everton spent £19.5m more than us, so gained 4 points at 1 point per £5m, as we could have conceivably spent £30m extra and lost 5 points that we would have had without spending it. There is simply no way to quantify it because it largely comes down to the human condition. Why did we survive relegation? In my eyes it was the actions of the fans dragging the team through it, that was our sporting advantage, you cant sue us for that.

 

[Moomin]

Correct...I seen post last week suggesting we shouldn't buy into the paranoia and the anti Everton agenda was purley for the tin foil hat brigade...after all the nonsense that's come out along the past couple of days it's hard to think anything else.

What has come out in the past few days?

 

[Blue Smoke]

Imagine they say yes to three teams suing us for 300 million. 777 back out of deal, we go into administration, another 9 points fine, relegated with not a soul who would buy the club when thryd also be required to spend 300 million on fines. No new owners, mo money to even complete the sradium and we go bust.
The rules set up to protect teams, would do completely the opposite for us and confine us to the history books.

 

[Moomin]

Imagine they say yes to three teams suing us for 300 million. 777 back out of deal, we go into administration, another 9 points fine, relegated with not a soul who would buy the club when thryd also be required to spend 300 million on fines. No new owners, mo money to even complete the sradium and we go bust.
The rules set up to protect teams, would do completely the opposite for us and confine us to the history books.

That's the dream.

Everton free weekends.

 

[thevorpalblade]

The Premier League and (In)Dependent Commission are making up decisions as they go.

We shouldn't roll over.
This needs to be fought all the way.

 

[RomanReigns]

Imagine they say yes to three teams suing us for 300 million. 777 back out of deal, we go into administration, another 9 points fine, relegated with not a soul who would buy the club when thryd also be required to spend 300 million on fines. No new owners, mo money to even complete the sradium and we go bust.
The rules set up to protect teams, would do completely the opposite for us and confine us to the history books.

Litigation would take years by then sheikh Jassim would have bought Everton and we would have won 12 prem leagues and 5 champs leagues

 

[Clint Planet]

I've not read much of this thread - other than dipping in every now and then and getting frustrated with the circular nature of what's being said - but it seems to me that the general consensus across football (fans, pundits, journalists, all my non-Evertonian mates etc) is that we've been harshly treated and that that will surely filter through to the powers that be when it comes to the appeal. In the meantime, all we can do, other than throw ourselves behind the team, is sit and wait.

(...and, for our own sanity, steer clear of this thread)

 

[BlueToff]

As much as we can all rightfully get angry at the Premier League....

This issue genuinely probably boils down to Everton just not selling Michael Keane (Player Y) in 2020; or, when it was clear we weren't selling him, not spending £20m on Ben Godfrey.