6 + 2 Point Deductions

[Saint Domingo]

Under Moyes we attempted to do this (but juggling debts in tandem made it an impossible task). We did that for well over a decade and smashed our heads continually on the glass ceiling. Hence the relief when we got a big spender like Moshiri...for a while at least.

We've tried to do it every which way and been frustrated. The ONLY way is to get a financial backer so huge that they can smash through the barrier both competitive and administratively. City did it; Newcastle are in the process of doing so.

Our failure was to get in that type of cash that we could sideline the PL and intimidate them. Anything short of that leaves you vulnerable.

That scenario leads to people - as @Drico stated yesterday - wishing for any sort of regime to back this club in future in order that we can fend off hostile forces.

The current situation underlines our weakness and we never want to be this weak again.

Even Newcastle though are now in a situation where they have to stick or twist in January. They’re not looking likely to get out the CL group so their revenue increase will not be huge on last season but if they want to qualify for next season they probably need to spend big again in January (especially with Tonali missing all season).

If they miss out on CL next season then they are left battling the same equation that their revenues are not matching the expenditure required to take on the scab six consistently. The only way they can then get around this is by having their owners sponsor them like City effectively did until your commercial revenues start to match up but this can take a decade. The PL are desperately trying to close this loophole as well so that Newcastle can’t do it and anyone like and Usmanov with USM couldn’t do it.

Carefully choreographed ‘drama’ between 6 teams on a weekly basis to suit the bookmakers and media partners , 14 teams staying in their lane taking their beatings as they should, the money continuously rolling in. That is all the PL care about and they’ll put up any blocker to stop this being disrupted.

They’ve got their fifth placed CL spot now which they all wanted but really it’s just a stepping stone to the day they can legitimately say ‘we’re having United Liverpool City Arsenal Chelsea and Spurs in the CL every season no matter where they finish and the rest of you will just take it and still keep paying to watch’

 

[MikeH72]

Come on mike it's time you had some belief. We were only a win or so away from mid table before the deduction!

We will be absolutely fine.

“Mid table or higher” implies that without a points deduction we’d be basically in or around 60 points and getting Europe. Just ridiculous.

 

[pfim]

This is

But the point I am making is the rules seem wrong if the wording in a loan agreement results in us being in breach of a rule which is designed to manage our economic health when the wording has zero impact on our economic health. One could argue we borrowed a working capital loan because the cash we would have otherwise used to fund that working capital is being used on the stadium and the interest on that loan is therefore at least indirectly attributable to the stadium spend. It's all completely arbitrary from an accounting/financial health perspective.

You can, but there are two legally binding documents that say the principal is not to be used for construction costs. That's the smoking gun.

Also, they didn't try to claim this interest as a construction cost until after they realized they were close to the 105 threshold.

DBB, Ingles and whoever else was involved in this screwed up. Each time I read that document I get angrier with them, the rest of the board and the owner.

 

[radiostar]

“Mid table or higher” implies that without a points deduction we’d be basically in or around 60 points and getting Europe. Just ridiculous.

Honestly...and you might think I'm deluded... But I think we could have made a late push for a European spot towards the end of the season.

I think we were easily in line to be looking at not being too far away from 7th/8th.

Quote me at the end of the season but this one will be at least a relaxed finish with absolutely no relegation worries.

 

[gedefc]

“Mid table or higher” implies that without a points deduction we’d be basically in or around 60 points and getting Europe. Just ridiculous.

on our current performances/form we would be finishing in the top half, if we were to keep most of that first XI fit for the season we'd have had a good season I think.

 

[Goodisongang]

I'm not saying the punishment wasn't ridiculous.

It's the Commission who chose it. Because of the PL's inability to have guidelines in place, the Commission had quite literally any option open to it. It could have chucked Everton out of the league entirely, if it had wished - though of course with no legal basis.

UEFA and PL have nothing to do with each other but similarly with EFL and PL, yet the Commission chose to use an EFL case (Sheff Wed) as the precedent to base their punishment off. That is about as much as they explain, as they don't show how they did their working out.

My entire point was, the difference in all of this could have been avoided by getting rid of Keane when we needed to or, not signing Godfrey. That's the difference. For all the cryarsing about players on huge wages etc, it boils down to buying tosh and not selling it on quickly enough as being the easiest way to avoid this.

Again, that's not me suggesting the punishment was fair.

yes in hindsight not making one of the ridiculous signings we made would have stopped this, however it seems as though as far as we were aware we were complying with the premier league, and have been for 3 years, i think if they believed for one minute this would have been the outcome they would have just sold someone.

furthermore,

It's the Commission who chose it. Because of the PL's inability to have guidelines in place, the Commission had quite literally any option open to it.

didn't the premier league suggest a 12 point deduction?

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

Yes... profligate spending... that's the very definition of it.

But we are being penalised for the amount of our spending, not its profligacy so I’m not sure it’s a relevant point. If we had signed Haaland, Bellingham and Some other stars players for the same amount we would still have breached the rules.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

You can, but there are two legally binding documents that say the principal is not to be used for construction costs. That's the smoking gun.

Also, they didn't try to claim this interest as a construction cost until after they realized they were close to the 105 threshold.

DBB, Ingles and whoever else was involved in this screwed up. Each time I read that document I get angrier with them, the rest of the board and the owner.

Legal documents don’t change reality. The working capital was required because of the stadium costs.

 

[Moomin]

You can, but there are two legally binding documents that say the principal is not to be used for construction costs. That's the smoking gun.

Also, they didn't try to claim this interest as a construction cost until after they realized they were close to the 105 threshold.

DBB, Ingles and whoever else was involved in this screwed up. Each time I read that document I get angrier with them, the rest of the board and the owner.

They also tried to take the transfer levy of 4% off the PSR calculation. When we or no other club had previously tried this.

 

[Billy Dean]

on our current performances/form we would be finishing in the top half, if we were to keep most of that first XI fit for the season we'd have had a good season I think.

I agree if we can keep our key players fit we should be fine. An injury to Pickford or one of Tarkowski and Branthwaite could make things difficult though.

 

[tommye]

I see the same independent panel will decide if we're liable for compensation to Leeds,Burnley etc.

Marvellous

 

[gedefc]

I see the same independent panel will decide if we're liable for compensation to Leeds,Burnley etc.

Marvellous

We just all need to keep the pressure on, keep it in the media etc

 

[davek]

Oh Dave, cave it in man.

It was a general point of saying that total fee is the difference. That's it. One Michael Keane or one Ben Godfrey.

Not saying it's not a travesty that Everton got 10 points. But this insistence that Everton are innocent is way wide of the mark. We were idiots. Unfortunately, the PL needed an example and have got one. But they picked on the wrong club.

That's not the issue and you know it. No one is suggesting complete innocence, but there is a multitude of extenuating circumstance and context there for that 10 points to be unwarranted.

But you go ahead and show everyone what a 'solid citizen' you are and completely 'objective'.

 

[Toffeelover]

Carragher did a nice defence on Facebook.

 

[davek]

Even Newcastle though are now in a situation where they have to stick or twist in January. They’re not looking likely to get out the CL group so their revenue increase will not be huge on last season but if they want to qualify for next season they probably need to spend big again in January (especially with Tonali missing all season).
If they miss out on CL next season then they are left battling the same equation that their revenues are not matching the expenditure required to take on the scab six consistently. The only way they can then get around this is by having their owners sponsor them like City effectively did until your commercial revenues start to match up but this can take a decade. The PL are desperately trying to close this loophole as well so that Newcastle can’t do it and anyone like and Usmanov with USM couldn’t do it.Carefully choreographed ‘drama’ between 6 teams on a weekly basis to suit the bookmakers and media partners , 14 teams staying in their lane taking their beatings as they should, the money continuously rolling in. That is all the PL care about and they’ll put up any blocker to stop this being disrupted.

They’ve got their fifth placed CL spot now which they all wanted but really it’s just a stepping stone to the day they can legitimately say ‘we’re having United Liverpool City Arsenal Chelsea and Spurs in the CL every season no matter where they finish and the rest of you will just take it and still keep paying to watch’

That's a perfect summing up of the situation.

But even they, the PL, in all their corruption know that those 6 (it used to be 4 then 5) have to have a 'relegation' or demotion and different blood in there to keep the product looking less like a cartel and therefore unpalatable. So they'll always find ways to do what they did with 'a Newcastle'...who will, incrementally, make strides and their mark in terms of competitive success eventually.

The lesson to be drawn here is to make yourself too big to fail...or at least challenge. That's the only way of keeping out of the vortex that sucks down most clubs financially and now toward a PL that 'has teeth'.