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2020/21 Abdoulaye Doucouré

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2020/21 - Abdoulaye Doucouré

If it means going back to 4-3-3, I'd let Gomes be the one to sit and take the ball off the defence. There'll be times where he gets swarmed, a la Jorginho under Sarri, but at least it'd free up Doucoure and Allan to get about more. Delph should have been given the Bolasie / Besic treatment...
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page 77-80 he goes from the worst player in the world to utterly boss haha Evertonians.
 
NathDogg said:
Anyone still giving this lad stick?!

Been sound for me all season, but seemed to be the focus of the boo blerts when we hit the sticky patch when he was doing about 70 different jobs - was never the problem and won't be in future.

Need him now to perform the role he did 2nd half and carry gomes/Sig/whoever until Allan is back.

Well played Doucs.
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To be honest stuff like this is just as bad. We veer to extremes on a weekly basis. A couple of bad games and someone's awful, a couple of good ones and everyone's out going 'WHERE ARE THE MOANERS NOW EH', only for us to get tonked in the next game and the whole thing starts again. I think Doucoure is a decent player who is pretty inconsistent and not always particularly effective. Last night he was really good, it didn't surprise me, he has it in his locker to do that and i've seen it plenty of times. It also didn't surprise me when he had some poor games earlier in the season, and it won't surprise me when he has an absolute shocker and some point in the next month or two, because that's the type of player he is. You can appreciate someone's good points and acknowledge their faults at the same time.
 

Lanolin said:
To be honest stuff like this is just as bad. We veer to extremes on a weekly basis. A couple of bad games and someone's awful, a couple of good ones and everyone's out going 'WHERE ARE THE MOANERS NOW EH', only for us to get tonked in the next game and the whole thing starts again. I think Doucoure is a decent player who is pretty inconsistent and not always particularly effective. Last night he was really good, it didn't surprise me, he has it in his locker to do that and i've seen it plenty of times. It also didn't surprise me when he had some poor games earlier in the season, and it won't surprise me when he has an absolute shocker and some point in the next month or two, because that's the type of player he is. You can appreciate someone's good points and acknowledge their faults at the same time.
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Not really saying that though am I? Ok certainly not saying he's pirlo, but I'm not veering to extremes - I just don't understand why some of our fans get right on a new signings back, when their performances drift or drop a little.

Doucs has been solid for me since he joined, but he was getting brickbats and dogs abuse when the team went to bits (Christ, so was Hamez FFS!) and Carlo was looking for ways to play, that obviously didn't work - as I've said before, he's the least of our problems, but you would think he was nyarko with some.
 
Lanolin said:
To be honest stuff like this is just as bad. We veer to extremes on a weekly basis. A couple of bad games and someone's awful, a couple of good ones and everyone's out going 'WHERE ARE THE MOANERS NOW EH', only for us to get tonked in the next game and the whole thing starts again. I think Doucoure is a decent player who is pretty inconsistent and not always particularly effective. Last night he was really good, it didn't surprise me, he has it in his locker to do that and i've seen it plenty of times. It also didn't surprise me when he had some poor games earlier in the season, and it won't surprise me when he has an absolute shocker and some point in the next month or two, because that's the type of player he is. You can appreciate someone's good points and acknowledge their faults at the same time.
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All very fair. I mean I do occasionally veer into that too and you're right it's not a great way to behave. Recently I did so with the Keane/Mina partnership, and mockingly asked "I thought they can't play together". It was a snide dig really, but I do think there are a small layer of fans, who think their opinions become gospel (though I'm sure some may think I act that way too!).

Nuance is always good, and I think it helps sort of avoid the boom and bust thinking which in the end probably makes people feel more angry than they ought to be. Nobody knows everything, and the view that Doucoure is either good or bad is not an unreasonable view. There is good evidence for either.

Anyway taking out that prelude, I think he had been much better Fulham onwards. He seemed to lose a lot of confidence in the derby, which he and Allan were really poor in (as well as Gomes) and the following few games he was awfu (albeit not helped by him playing right wing at Newcastle). He seemed to sit more at Fulham, and enjoythat aspect of the game. Simplifying it helped him.

Like most of the team he went missign against Leeds, but I thought he was ok against Burnley for the most part and good against Chelsea before the Leicester display.

At Watford he never really sat and broke play up, partially because they had Capoue to do so and really because they needed him further forward. Sitting in front of the back 4 seems to suit him. He can cover ground, reads the game ok, and can occasionally break from that position too. He looks happier in that role to me, whereas playing in an 8/10 role I've always felt he looked a bit muddled by it. You get some good moments from him, but also some games he would not get the flow of.

We need him in front of the back 4 now and I'm pleased to see him excelling in the role. Lets hope the consistency level he has shown for the last 4 games can go forward across the next 34. He will be a great buy if thats the case.
 

catcherintherye said:
All very fair. I mean I do occasionally veer into that too and you're right it's not a great way to behave. Recently I did so with the Keane/Mina partnership, and mockingly asked "I thought they can't play together". It was a snide dig really, but I do think there are a small layer of fans, who think their opinions become gospel (though I'm sure some may think I act that way too!).

Nuance is always good, and I think it helps sort of avoid the boom and bust thinking which in the end probably makes people feel more angry than they ought to be. Nobody knows everything, and the view that Doucoure is either good or bad is not an unreasonable view. There is good evidence for either.

Anyway taking out that prelude, I think he had been much better Fulham onwards. He seemed to lose a lot of confidence in the derby, which he and Allan were really poor in (as well as Gomes) and the following few games he was awfu (albeit not helped by him playing right wing at Newcastle). He seemed to sit more at Fulham, and enjoythat aspect of the game. Simplifying it helped him.

Like most of the team he went missign against Leeds, but I thought he was ok against Burnley for the most part and good against Chelsea before the Leicester display.

At Watford he never really sat and broke play up, partially because they had Capoue to do so and really because they needed him further forward. Sitting in front of the back 4 seems to suit him. He can cover ground, reads the game ok, and can occasionally break from that position too. He looks happier in that role to me, whereas playing in an 8/10 role I've always felt he looked a bit muddled by it. You get some good moments from him, but also some games he would not get the flow of.

We need him in front of the back 4 now and I'm pleased to see him excelling in the role. Lets hope the consistency level he has shown for the last 4 games can go forward across the next 34. He will be a great buy if thats the case.
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Don't get me wrong, I do it myself. I think straight after games when emotions are running high we're all prone to being a bit dramatic and I've definitely done my fair share of 'he's rubbish' ' total waste of money' etc in the aftermath of a bad game. I try to be a bit more considered in general terms though, and avoid just saying x player is good y player is bad. Everyone's got their pluses and negatives (obviously some much more weighted than others!) and I try not to write anyone off.

I'd agree with your summary of Doucoure's season. I've said a few times, I think he's a decent box to box midfielder but he doesn't necessarily excel at either end. He's useful getting forward but he won't really get a lot of goals or assists, and he's useful defensively but isn't always the most disciplined or switched on. Generally his strength is in the middle third, either carrying the ball forward or harrying and battling. Occasionally he manages to put the whole thing together and looks great, occasionally he has a bit of a nightmare where he just can't get the basics right. If Ancelotti can get more games like wednesday out of him, and less like Leeds/Newcastle etc, then he'll be a really good signing. If it's the other way round he'll have been a waste of money. It'll be an interesting ride to see how it pans out I think.
 
Lanolin said:
Don't get me wrong, I do it myself. I think straight after games when emotions are running high we're all prone to being a bit dramatic and I've definitely done my fair share of 'he's rubbish' ' total waste of money' etc in the aftermath of a bad game. I try to be a bit more considered in general terms though, and avoid just saying x player is good y player is bad. Everyone's got their pluses and negatives (obviously some much more weighted than others!) and I try not to write anyone off.

I'd agree with your summary of Doucoure's season. I've said a few times, I think he's a decent box to box midfielder but he doesn't necessarily excel at either end. He's useful getting forward but he won't really get a lot of goals or assists, and he's useful defensively but isn't always the most disciplined or switched on. Generally his strength is in the middle third, either carrying the ball forward or harrying and battling. Occasionally he manages to put the whole thing together and looks great, occasionally he has a bit of a nightmare where he just can't get the basics right. If Ancelotti can get more games like wednesday out of him, and less like Leeds/Newcastle etc, then he'll be a really good signing. If it's the other way round he'll have been a waste of money. It'll be an interesting ride to see how it pans out I think.
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Yes. I mean I think the discussions people have on here 20 years ago would be had in the pub. You give your view, and there's some closure and it's down. Obviously writing it down, there's a record and I suppose it's harder to laugh it off than it would be "in person". There's a lot of benefits to internet sites too, but it kind of formalises raw emotion. Thats probably even more the case, now we are in lockdown and not going to the games in person.

Doucoure is an ok player. I suppose my take on it is that Lee Carsley was an ok, and because he was put in the right system and asked to do what he could manage he was an important cog in a wheel that regularly finished in the top 6. There's a legitimate question to say- well will he hit a ceiling, and he probably will, but you kind of cross that bridge when you come to it.

I'll be honest I'm quite surprised at how good he is in the 6. Id have gone the other way with him, and played him 1 further forward, givem he carries the ball very well, shoots well and is an ok passer. But what do I know? He looks much happier in the 6 role. In fairness to him, he said in a recent Athletic interview he sees himself as a DM but has never really been given that chance at Watford. Early indications are that he is more comfortable in that position. He's certainly got the build and desire to cover the ground. As with a lot of this squad though, it's now just a case of getting on and proving it consistently.

While I may talk a lot of rubbish, I'm always very happy to eat himble pie. Iwobi is making me do that currently. I thought he was done after Southampton )and not just in a rageful, we've lost so burn the house down type of way) but I just didn't think he could use his physicality. Goodness me though, he has kicked on too.
 

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