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2023/24 Abdoulaye Doucoure

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Jacko93 said:
In My opinion, most of the time, possession stats say very little about the dynamics of a game. Against Brighton, we let them play the ball at the back, cause it was pretty much completely ineffective for them. Teams play the ball at the back to try and work a shape that they can attack with. In almost all cases, the value to this is the work done off the ball, not on it, by both teams. We were more effective than them off the ball, thus controlling the game better. The fact that they had so much possession meant that we weren't giving them the opportunities to play the riskier ball in behind, not that they were better than us.

Against Luton it was flip flopped. We had loads of possession but wasn't given the chance to do anything of note about it due to discipline of the opponents.

AS @Neiler says, our next step is to work on a playmaker of quality, controversial but, that 'could' be Dele. Somebody who ca make the difference with a defence splitting pass, or effort from distance once we get the ball.

I don't care whether we play possession football, or otherwise, I just want effective football. I have seen both styles being played at Goodison over recent years, and both with little effect by Home and Away teams.
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Exactly mate, good post. ;)
 
Also, just something else to add to this. Success isn't necessarily born from possession, so much as the ability to play possession is born from success. If a team fears you and the quality of your individual players, they are more likely to play a low-block and/or disciplined lines across the pitch, which isn't fluid enough to enforce a possession game of their own.

This is why some people really didn't like Mourinho, he wouldn't get drawn into possession football for parts of his career, regardless of opponent. He would just play his style and try to hit you on the counter. When neither team wants to enforce possession, you get a pretty dull game.
 
Jacko93 said:
Also, just something else to add to this. Success isn't necessarily born from possession, so much as the ability to play possession is born from success. If a team fears you and the quality of your individual players, they are more likely to play a low-block and/or disciplined lines across the pitch, which isn't fluid enough to enforce a possession game of their own.

This is why some people really didn't like Mourinho, he wouldn't get drawn into possession football for parts of his career, regardless of opponent. He would just play his style and try to hit you on the counter. When neither team wants to enforce possession, you get a pretty dull game.
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I agree with that to an extent mate, but would counter in the sense that if a team know you have a lack of creativity or an inability to score - they will let you have the ball, sit in with a low block - be fairly confident they can repel you and not concede and take their break on the counter, when the space opens up in behind.

Id use the example of Fulham and Wolves at home this year - they knew without DCL, McNeill or Harrison (also before Beto) that we would struggle to create and score - so they let us have the ball, put up two deep low block defensive lines and knew wed never break them down - then exploited the space in behind on the counter - be interesting to see the possession stats from those games.
 
“Everton midfielder Abdoulaye Doucoure leads the way for pressures this term with a staggering 488 to date – that’s 66 clear of runner-up and renowned workhorse Jordan Ayew – who signed a new deal at Palace this month,” according to Sky Sports.

The figures don’t stop there, however, with only Manchester United’s Bruno Fernandes (126.24km) and Brentford’s Christain Norgaard (126.10km) covering more distance than Doucoure (125.48km).
 
Neiler said:
Ah there a few, the Kopites are counter based, Inter won a CL without the ball etc, WHU won a Euro trophy last year playing on the counter. Id say counter and press is the dominant philosophy at the mo.

Im trying to remember all the players that were could hold possession were called crabs when they held possession here - quite a few.

It wasn't a barb at you - i genuinely don think people know what they want.

This time last year people were giving about about playing pointless possession football and wanted to be more direct, this year when we are more direct people want more possession
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Just give me points for now.
 

Gilbert.. said:
Its the exception rather than the norm over a sustained period that teams with so little of the ball are successful. But i still loved the leicester fairytale. They caught everyone out as nobody took them serious even right up to the last few weeks. The vardy counter worked a treat for that one season.
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Is it an exception for teams that are midtable?
 
Gilbert.. said:
Its the exception rather than the norm over a sustained period that teams with so little of the ball are successful. But i still loved the leicester fairytale. They caught everyone out as nobody took them serious even right up to the last few weeks. The vardy counter worked a treat for that one season.
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Who did their fans select for player of the year that year? I'd guess Kante. Schmeichel capable GK. Morgan Huth experienced CB's, Chilwell International LB, Drinkwater Kante lockdown midfield, Mahrez top wide player, Vardy everything he touched went in - season of his life. They didn't do a lot in cups iirc, no Europe, no major injuries or suspensions, a perfect storm coupled with a not even 98% at the races more expensive sides in the race with them.
81 points won the league for them, previously 75, 78, 79, 80, 80, had won the league respectively since 1992 on lower points finishes (man utd 4 times, Arsenal once). A part to understand in retrospect is the gulf in strength between the top and bottom of the league in the 90's and the 2010's.

Every side needs it's water carrier, the hard yards done to earn a bit of space, Doucoure is the player that takes the fight to the opposition for us currently.
 
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Gilbert.. said:
I wouldnt know mate. Its been a while since ive looked at anything other than the relegation table.
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Well that seems like a load of tripe considering you JUST confidently stated it was "exception rather than the norm" for the successful teams who most definitely arent on the relegation table. Unless thats what you consider to be success...
 
Neiler said:
Lets keep her country here mate!;)

Overall i disagree also with your assertion - you assume a teams that play possession game are successful - they arent there are many different ways to be successful in football, not so Leicester won a PL title without the ball and our lovely neighbours under Klopp, have won loads playing pretty much counter attack football. They couldn't get a sniff last week when they were forced into holding possession VS Luton - very similar to us now that i think about it.

Elsewise i believe more in control of the game, Bourmouth for example had more possession at Goodison but we were in absolute control of that game, we had possession to burn VS Luton but never had control of the game.

I dont know were this assumption comes from that possession means you've obviously done well in a game or a virtue in football that must be found - its an absolute myth.
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Only choosing individual games is biased, throughout the history of football. Teams that play footy and get the ball to their most technical players quickly win the most games.
 
Neiler said:
Like playing on the counter. ;)
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In some cases yes, but is the a line between quick turnovers and counter attacking football.

Klopp and Pep are the best at these quick turnover in the opposition half and wouldn't be considered counter attacking football in general.

Whereas teams that are deeper and Leicester as you mentioned being the biggest example of counter attack being effective.

Doucoure has been really effective under Dyche and I'd say our second best performer.
 

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