Ageing squad

[blueblue]

It sounds as if some of you believe that at 30 years old players start to decline physically and practically need wheel chairs to get around.
The reverse is true,players in their early thiirties are at their very peak....the only thing they lack at that age is a resale value.

Everton have a very good age balance in the squad.We have youngsters in Barkley,Rodwell,Coleman,Anichebe,Gueye,Vellios,Fellaini.
We then have a group in their mid twenties approaching their peak in Baines,Heitinga,Jagielka,Bily,Arteta,Beckford and finally we have a last group aged around thirty in Cahill,Osman,Hibbert.

There are really only about three that are at the genuine veteran stage in Neville,Distin and Saha and both Neville and Distin are amongst the fittest at the club.

There are plenty of problems at Everton ,the age profile of the squad is not one of them.

 

[Matt Damon]

8 out of 25 squad members are 30 or over 30. Not HALF as Zatara erroneously claimed yesterday

This means if we use the 2 in 2 out policy, that we need to bring through / in 4 players in the next season and a half.

Which is dooable considering the youth setup's progress.

Infact that process has already started with the likes of Rodwell, Barkley, Adam Forshaw and Conor McAleny and one or two others who are being assessed at the moment.


I really don't know what Zataara is doing, or trying to panic people about.

 

[davek]

8 out of 25 squad members are 30 or over 30. Not HALF as Zatara erroneously claimed yesterday

This means if we use the 2 in 2 out policy, that we need to bring through / in 4 players in the next season and a half.

Which is dooable considering the youth setup's progress.

Infact that process has already started with the likes of Rodwell, Barkley, Adam Forshaw and Conor McAleny and one or two others who are being assessed at the moment.


I really don't know what Zataara is doing, or trying to panic people about.

Because in reality, when you take out the fillers, we have 8 out of about 17 players who could reasonably be expected to get a game who are over the age of 30.

*shakes head*

 

[Matt Damon]

Because in reality, when you take out the fillers, we have 8 out of about 17 players who could reasonably be expected to get a game who are over the age of 30.

*shakes head*

How are the young players going to be "reasonably expected to get a game" unless they have one or two seasons in and around the first team?

Or is that too tough for you Dave ?

 

[RFUS]

Ok, if Ossie had such a positive impact going forward, why didn't we score any more goals? We were playing weaker opposition. If it wasn't for the 5 against Blackpool, our goal tally would have been much inferior after the switch.

If you look at my team sheet we weren't playing 4-2-3-1. I presume you mean that Heitinga played with Neville as 'double anchors'. From 5th March, Johnny featured in 9 out of those 11 games. He only played the full game 6 times though. If his presence was such a factor, I'd expect it to show up more in the stats. One thing I did notice was that he was yellow carded 5 times in those 9 games.

Basically, I've given you some information that appears to indicate that we're much better defensively with Neville in midfield. Rather than accepting that it might, atleast in part be true, you'd rather try and find ways to discredit it. Can you accept that maybe we might achieve better results with Nev shielding the defence?

Right, here's the stats I worked out the other week regarding Cahill:

Going by last season that's a lie. I can't believe I was sad enough to work all this out, but here you go:


With Cahill ------ Without Cahill
Played: 28 -------------- 10
Won: ---9 ----------------4
Drawn: 11 ----------------4
Lost: ---8 ----------------2

Points: -----------38 --- 16
Points per game: 1.35 -- 1.6

Scored: --34 ----------- 17
Conceded: 33 ----------- 12

Goals per game: ---1.2 ---- 1.7
Conceded per game: 1.18 --- 1.2


Some other things to note:

• Of the 9 games in which Cahill scored we only managed to win 3, but drew 4 and lost 2.
• The Sunderland 2-0 win has been attributed to the with Cahill table, although he only played the last 18 minutes of the game. By that point we were already 2-0 up and coasting.

I'm just going to highlight the key stats as that is a lot of info.

With Cahill we averaged 1.35 points and 1.2 goals per game.
Without Cahill we averaged 1.7 points and 1.6 points per game.


So proportionately speaking last season, we got more points without him and also scored more goals. To all those who love to say we can't live without his goals, the stats say differently. They say we can actually do even better.

Not to say we should get rid of him or anything. I just thing these stats back up the opinion that we should look to move away from the traditional 4-5-1/4-4-1-1 with Cahill, as it isn't as effective as it was. We need something new; a formation which works for players like Osman and Beckford. If that new formation can also work for Cahill, then that would be perfect, but it's a tough one for sure.

They are quite applicable to this argument because after Cahill left we started using the 4-4-2 and then a 4-2-3-1, and Ossie started to shine.

You say without the Blackpool goals we'd have scored less but those stats say we scored more on average. And that's with the Blackpool game in the with Cahill section, too, as he was subbed on in that game. So I'm going to say you're factually inaccurate with that one.

I don't have the exact stats with Neville at CM and not, and I can't be arsed working them out. But do not underline Ossie's impact.

As for Heitinga I'm not sure what you're saying. I'm not saying Neville's performance had anything to do with Heitinga. Defensively speaking Neville is the superior defender, at CM, for me. I'm just saying I'd rather have Fellaini there over either. I'm genuinely shocked anyone could not want that.

You keep acting like you're showing me a piece of paper saying "2+2= 4". You're not. You're showing me debatable stats lacking context and overlooking other variables. I am rightly pointing out other things to consider, to yes, discredit Neville somewhat. That's how arguments generally work -- you fight for one side and I fight for the other. I believe Fellaini is the superior player at DM because I've seen it with my own eyes.

But honestly mate, I'm done. You are without a shadow of a doubt the most frustrating poster I've ever come across on here. I don't mean that in a bad way, mind. We just seem to clash on footballing opinions and I'm a bit fed up of arguing about it all. Credit to you for standing your ground, and credit to you for using stats to back up claims. I do think however, you put far too much weight into stats. And especially goals, with your whole "so and so needs to score X" mantra. As far as I'm concerned all that matters is the points and the result, and I firmly believe Fellaini does more to help us achieve good results than Neville does, at CM/DM.

 

[Zatara]

Because in reality, when you take out the fillers, we have 8 out of about 17 players who could reasonably be expected to get a game who are over the age of 30.

*shakes head*

Neville
Distin
Howard
Jagielka
Arteta
Hibbert
Osman
Yobo
Yakubu
Saha

It's actually 10 players isn't it + Everton used 20 players last season (the lowest amount in the league) which is half the team....

 

[Matt Damon]

Neville
Distin
Howard
Jagielka
Arteta
Hibbert
Osman
Yobo
Yakubu
Saha

It's actually 10 players isn't it + Everton used 20 players last season (the lowest amount in the league) which is half the team....

Jagielka is 28. As is Yakubu and Arteta is 29.

And it's not half.

No matter how much you try to dress it up and put it in a dress.

So you're wrong.

PS. It doesn't mean we're going to use 20 players in the league this season either!

 

[Goat]

Im actually with the Damon whoppa on this 1.

Jags and Arteta arent 30, so stop using them.

 

[Zatara]

Jags is 29 in a week or so....Arteta is 29 as you say -- will be 30 during the season and Yakubu....well.....


Seeing as our wage budget is apparently too tight for even Barton, how do you expect these young kids to be paid ? If they perform well they'll be due wage rises....

 

[Goat]

Jags is 29 in a week or so....Arteta is 29 as you say -- will be 30 during the season and Yakubu....well.....


Seeing as our wage budget is apparently too tight for even Barton, how do you expect these young kids to be paid ? If they perform well they'll be due wage rises....

Full name Mikel Arteta Amatriain
Date of birth 26 March 1982 (1982-03-26) (age 29)

He will be 30 for only the last 6 weeks of the Season.

Full name Philip Nikodem Jagielka[1]
Date of birth 17 August 1982 (1982-08-17) (age 28)

He wont even be 30 for the start of NEXT Season.

 

[chicoazul]

Zatara you bad weirdo.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Zatara you bad weirdo.

The bad ageist....

 

[Seamus Colemole]

We're fine for a couple of years at least.

Every team has aging players who need to be replaced thats part of football.

The worrying thing and most important point here is that its kinda hard to replace them with bugger all money.

We're left hoping that the kids can come through and prove good enough replacements.

 

[billycopper]

Right, here's the stats I worked out the other week regarding Cahill:



They are quite applicable to this argument because after Cahill left we started using the 4-4-2 and then a 4-2-3-1, and Ossie started to shine.

You say without the Blackpool goals we'd have scored less but those stats say we scored more on average. And that's with the Blackpool game in the with Cahill section, too, as he was subbed on in that game. So I'm going to say you're factually inaccurate with that one.

I don't have the exact stats with Neville at CM and not, and I can't be arsed working them out. But do not underline Ossie's impact.

As for Heitinga I'm not sure what you're saying. I'm not saying Neville's performance had anything to do with Heitinga. Defensively speaking Neville is the superior defender, at CM, for me. I'm just saying I'd rather have Fellaini there over either. I'm genuinely shocked anyone could not want that.

You keep acting like you're showing me a piece of paper saying "2+2= 4". You're not. You're showing me debatable stats lacking context and overlooking other variables. I am rightly pointing out other things to consider, to yes, discredit Neville somewhat. That's how arguments generally work -- you fight for one side and I fight for the other. I believe Fellaini is the superior player at DM because I've seen it with my own eyes.

But honestly mate, I'm done. You are without a shadow of a doubt the most frustrating poster I've ever come across on here. I don't mean that in a bad way, mind. We just seem to clash on footballing opinions and I'm a bit fed up of arguing about it all. Credit to you for standing your ground, and credit to you for using stats to back up claims. I do think however, you put far too much weight into stats. And especially goals, with your whole "so and so needs to score X" mantra. As far as I'm concerned all that matters is the points and the result, and I firmly believe Fellaini does more to help us achieve good results than Neville does, at CM/DM.

I compared 11 games with Neville at DM to the 11 previous games where he was at right back. My stats are accurate. You're comparing games featuring a different player in a different period of time, so your stats have no bearing on my argument.

You're saying that our form improved because we switched to 4-2-3-1. For that to be the case, Neville would need a partner in DM. If Heitinga only played half of the games then Rodwell must have played the remainder, as we have no one else who can do the job. How confident are you that that's what actually happened?

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'd have Fellaini in my team without a doubt. I'm not comparing Fellaini to Neville. I'm saying that we were tighter defensively when Nev played in midfield and that there's a good case for keeping him there at the expense of Heitinga or Rodwell. I'm just asking that you be open to that. I've shown to you that we concede a lot less goals and pick up a lot more points with him in midfield. So, why are you so closed off to it?

 

[Silas]

We are basically in the same situation as Chelsea without the money to replace them. We are going rely heavily on the young players coming through being great.