Alisher Usmanov

[bluestevon]

He'll offer them to the fans and Kroenke will be forced to buy......

Believe krornke has in the past made every effort to stop fans owning shares, so yes a good call that.

 

[peteblue]

They'd shift fast mate, be it through investment groups, or individual buyers they would shift. Why did individual Everton fans purchase shares for, believing I think a fair few on here with several, because for a fan with the means it's a investment and a piece if the club you love.

They would sell at a premium, a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy into your club......

 

[paultheblue]

How when Moshiri has an agreement in place to go to a 75% (I think) ownership?

This has always worried me the 49% thing, Is it set in stone this agreement to buy 75% ? as for me the sooner he has 75% the better.I want Kenwright and his thieving mate Green out of our club as soon as possible.

 

[catcherintherye]

@The Esk As per below posts, any response to clarify how you are privy to such information would help support your elevated position of stature within this forum.

I popped a similar reply earlier in the thread to this. For all I know Esk could be Usmanov or Moshiri's right hand man however I think people do need to take his, and anybody's else information with a pinch of salt. I am not really sure what people get from trying to get him to reveal sources. It's patently obvious he couldn't do this, and even if he could if he did that person(s) would never be able to reveal information again.

The other important point I would make is that Esk gives his take on information presented. Nobody can ever be truly objective. As I said earlier in the thread, rather than view his information of a photograph I would view it more as a portrait. A portrait isn't "right" or "wrong" but more of an interpretation of the information.

I'm not really sure I understand the increasing desire on the forum to get him to have to justify everything he puts. He passes on information he has at a particular moment. Even if it doesn't come off, it has value and it is interesting. It's interesting to know we were close to Witsel, it shows Koeman wants a leading Central Midfielder. It shows us that we may not be as attractive proposition as we thought. That players or agents may use us. That some may agree verbally but get last minute jitters. That we can get a deal quite close to being done. All of this is invaluable and interesting information, even if it doesn't give everyone what we all ultimately want (players in Everton shirts).
However it is useful to see trends and aspirations that arise from the information, whether we are successful or not.

I see no reason why Esk or anyone else should have to justify themselves, their sources or how they acquire information. We live in a free country and if people don't appreciate the information he gives then can choose not to read it, discard it or at a push pop him on ignore.

While your posts are not abusive or out of order they are asking him to do something that you probably know he can't. He can't give the source of information away. So the end result is either he stops providing information or he provides it and people accept it's a snapshot of where things stand at the moment he's told and the situation moves on.

I have to say I think it would be a great shame if he took the former option. I think most viewers of the forum would agree with me. I don't doubt there are some posters who find it frustrating but I do think they are in a minority. I also think there are a number of functions available in order to ignore a poster if there posts cause annoyance. Lets not kid ourselves though, people who have reliable information cannot go broadcasting it over the internet and it is an unfair request for them to do so.

 

[bluestevon]

They would sell at a premium, a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy into your club......

From a club with a huge fan base especially in the far east where such things are seen as a status or thing to put on your wall no doubt. Arsenal are a huge club with a lot of wealthy supporters who'd die for the chance to own a piece of the club. Especially one that's value wil only rise considerably over time.

 

[peteblue]

From a club with a huge fan base especially in the far east where such things are seen as a status or thing to put on your wall no doubt. Arsenal are a huge club with a lot of wealthy supporters who'd die for the chance to own a piece of the club. Especially one that's value wil only rise considerably over time.

Indeed.......Usmanov will have no problems in selling his shares, whenever, if ever, he decides to do so........

 

[Duncan Disordely]

This has always worried me the 49% thing, Is it set in stone this agreement to buy 75% ? as for me the sooner he has 75% the better.I want Kenwright and his thieving mate Green out of our club as soon as possible.

From what I've read the agreement is in place that once certain conditions are met (rumours that it's planning permission for the stadium being granted) that he has the option to purchase those shares. Also in one of the stories I read, the board members who own those shares also have the option to force him to buy those shares once the conditions are met, due to the type of agreement it is.

 

[bluestevon]

I popped a similar reply earlier in the thread to this. For all I know Esk could be Usmanov or Moshiri's right hand man however I think people do need to take his, and anybody's else information with a pinch of salt. I am not really sure what people get from trying to get him to reveal sources. It's patently obvious he couldn't do this, and even if he could if he did that person(s) would never be able to reveal information again.

The other important point I would make is that Esk gives his take on information presented. Nobody can ever be truly objective. As I said earlier in the thread, rather than view his information of a photograph I would view it more as a portrait. A portrait isn't "right" or "wrong" but more of an interpretation of the information.

I'm not really sure I understand the increasing desire on the forum to get him to have to justify everything he puts. He passes on information he has at a particular moment. Even if it doesn't come off, it has value and it is interesting. It's interesting to know we were close to Witsel, it shows Koeman wants a leading Central Midfielder. It shows us that we may not be as attractive proposition as we thought. That players or agents may use us. That some may agree verbally but get last minute jitters. That we can get a deal quite close to being done. All of this is invaluable and interesting information, even if it doesn't give everyone what we all ultimately want (players in Everton shirts).
However it is useful to see trends and aspirations that arise from the information, whether we are successful or not.

I see no reason why Esk or anyone else should have to justify themselves, their sources or how they acquire information. We live in a free country and if people don't appreciate the information he gives then can choose not to read it, discard it or at a push pop him on ignore.

While your posts are not abusive or out of order they are asking him to do something that you probably know he can't. He can't give the source of information away. So the end result is either he stops providing information or he provides it and people accept it's a snapshot of where things stand at the moment he's told and the situation moves on.

I have to say I think it would be a great shame if he took the former option. I think most viewers of the forum would agree with me. I don't doubt there are some posters who find it frustrating but I do think they are in a minority. I also think there are a number of functions available in order to ignore a poster if there posts cause annoyance. Lets not kid ourselves though, people who have reliable information cannot go broadcasting it over the internet and it is an unfair request for them to do so.

On this particular issue mate though I don't believe he has ever claimed any itk knowledge or inside info, much the opposite as I remember clearly several months ago he stated the opposite and that all his take on usmanov was based purely on his own personell opinion.

 

[paultheblue]

From what I've read the agreement is in place that once certain conditions are met (rumours that it's planning permission for the stadium being granted) that he has the option to purchase those shares. Also in one of the stories I read, the board members who own those shares also have the option to force him to buy those shares once the conditions are met, due to the type of agreement it is.

Hope thats true mate

 

[bluestevon]

Indeed.......Usmanov will have no problems in selling his shares, whenever, if ever, he decides to do so........

In part it's why I don't understand anyone trying to use difficulty in selling as a major reason he wouldn't come. Clutching at straws in terms if finding reasons why he couldn't when I read that.

 

[Duncan Disordely]

Hope thats true mate

You and me both mate!

 

[catcherintherye]

On this particular issue mate though I don't believe he has ever claimed any itk knowledge or inside info, much the opposite as I remember clearly several months ago he stated the opposite and that all his take on usmanov was based purely on his own personell opinion.

Yes exactly. He states he has been told x,y or z. If people choose to think that means the are definitely coming or not (in the case of Usmanov) thats up to them.

There is a range of views on this, Esk is pretty fervent on it but my gut instinct thinks more is going on. I'm sure he is notifying though, rarely do people lie, they just have different viewpoints.

 

[bluestevon]

Yes exactly. He states he has been told x,y or z. If people choose to think that means the are definitely coming or not (in the case of Usmanov) thats up to them.

There is a range of views on this, Esk is pretty fervent on it but my gut instinct thinks more is going on. I'm sure he is notifying though, rarely do people lie, they just have different viewpoints.

My take On it, esk is too fervent on it not happening from someone with no inside knowledge on the matter, also ignoring anything but the pure business dynamic if the matter is ignoring all of the personal history and friendship between the two men.

Very narrow view of a very broad matter in my opinion.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Alternatively since kroenke got control at arsenal how many principal investors are there who he could offer any if what you suggest too? - 1 and that's usmanov, between them they own 98% of the club, so the entire premise about no board seat, no influence etc comes through this one example involving the man he beat out in the race for control of the club and who they share a huge animosity towards each other?

Yes, there is a personal animosity, however this is largely down to the fact that Kroenke wants to have a personal iron grip on the club. It doesn't need finances as it has cash reserves far in excess of most other clubs. Kroenke, however, is a business man who likes control. I'd be surprised if he would be any more willing to share control with any other 30% shareholder than Usmanov.

Said to esk before and he kind of avoided the real answer, but exactly what power or control do the 13% Chinese investors have in man city?

Can't profess to have any knowledge of the extent of the Chinese investment, but a quick look online shows that two exec. directors of Man City - an Emirati and a Chinese businessman. I assume there is a strategic reason for the investment as well - a knowledge that China is likely to be a big market for football in the future. As I say, if the desire for investment is there (for whatever reason), then stakes are more easily held and a degree of control does normally come as part of the package.

Similarly it's been stated tat kroenke would have zero interest in any purchasing of usmanovs shares, despite the fact doing so would allow him a totally unnoposed control of arsenal? Which as long as usmanov stays will always be a figure fans can point to.

Kroenke has unopposed control as things stand - Usmanov is essentially harmless to Kroenke, a silent shareholder. Kroenke also knows that buying out Usmanov's shares won't resolve the fans issues with squad investment.

 

[The Esk]

I guess I'm confused about the nature of these shares and the difference here between their value and their liquidity. If you own normal, every-day stock market shares and you can't sell them for what you bought them for then that means that's not what they're worth anymore. So when people say these are £16000/share, that's according to who? Isn't there a market that sets the price for these shares? Even if there isn't, surely they have not lost all their value? There must be some price that exists at which some one would buy them? After all, the vast majority of the world's stocks are sold to people who are not getting seats on the board.

Put another way, you seem to be telling us that Usmanov gambled £300 million to gain control of Arsenal, lost to Kroenke, and is now simply stuck with the world's most expensive season ticket. Is this an accurate description of the situation? If it is accurate then it's hard for me to understand that his reaction is just going to be to shrug his shoulders and say "Oh well, win some, lose some".

(I've basically made this exact post before, but it was during my first-five-posts probation period and by the time it got approved the thread had doubled in size. Consequently I don't think anyone saw it, but if you read it before then excuse me for repeating myself.)

Hi mate,

Arsenal shares are quoted on ISDX with market makers such as Peel Hunt offering a market in shares. You can get a quote from them any trading day. However very few shares are traded.

You are correct in your assessment of Usmanov’s position at Arsenal. Both he and Kroenke accumulated just under 30% before Kroenke launched a bid securing the board's shares in 2011 to take him to 62%. There's an interesting and complex story behind how he did it involving NM Rothchild - I'll detail it another time.

Usmanov had the option to sell to Kroenke in 2011 during the takeover but refused to do so, hence him now having a large minority position with no influence.

Hope this helps.