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"Always the victim..It's never your fault" Origins..

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Dushku

Dushku

Player Valuation: £1m
I'm listening to a caller on TalkSport discussing the recent 'truce' being laid down by Sir Alex and his counterparts over at Anfield over the ' derogatory songs' that both sets of supporters sing to each other, not only when they meet but when a contingent of them are gathered together, at any time.

I understand the whole Munich '58 abuse, along with the chanting and plane actions. But, now I may being over naive here, I always assumed the song " Always the victim..it's never your fault" was aimed in Liverpool's direction purely down to their constant whining about refereeing decisions, the Suarez incident, being dragged in front of the F.A.. etc..and every other petty incident that has stopped them from being "Supreme Rulers of Europe" - where they truly believe they belong * ( disclaimer,this is not actually true..they don't deserve, anything). I never for one moment, thought it was about Hillsborough,as the phone call made out this morning echoing Sir Alex's comments. If this was the case, then should we be held accountable too ? - as I've heard our lot sing it on plenty of occasions.

I'm hoping and pretty sure this isn't the case and they've got wires crossed or that Manchester United have some how hi-jacked this song to meet their own ends. I'm convinced that when we sing it, it's aimed at Liverpool fans for their constant crying over every single footballing failings of theirs and NOTHING more !:(:(

Can some one shed some light on this.. thanks :)
 
I always thought it was about the consistent moaning/we get nothing off refs/ saurez is incident stuff etc. because it seemed to come about around the same time as the Saurez/Evra incident but I've heard Kopites commenting that it's an anti-hillsborough song. In saying that though I've heard kopites complain that the 'murderours' chant is about hillsborough, so it may be just another case of self-pity f.c. Finding something to moan about.
 
I always thought that the "victims" reference related to Hillsborough, Heysel, Michael Shields etc. .. hence the sensitivities expressed by our neighbours in such regard and the degree of hostility which generally accompanies the chanting, reference etc
 
It came to prominence during their 'south american cultural expert' phase. But you've nailed it in the OP, they will never admit their players, manager or lub were in the wrong ever.
 
It has in my mind been about all there mishaps on the pitch and off the pitch i.e suarez/evra incident never has hillsborough even crossed my mind when i sing that and the 'murderers' chants is not and never will be about Hillsborough but is about heysel. I refuse to join in with the murderers chants as it is disgusting and vile.
 

I've sung it. And it was never about Hillsborough when I did sing it. More to do with the fact they believe they can do no wrong and every footballing decision is against them, such is the very obvious FA bias against them...
 
I think yesterday was probably Hillsborough-related, though apparently they sing it all the time so it might not have been.

Though the sensitivity of that other lot to songs that aimed at them does also mean that it may not be as bad as portrayed, after all there was offence taken after Rio Ferdinand was caught singing the "without killing anyone, we won it three times" song in Moscow, and of course I doubt anyone honestly thinks that next Sunday will be free of Munich-related "banter".
 
It is about everything EXCEPT in our case, we really shouldn't have to defend ourselves about the song because some idiots claim that we are singing that and the other one about Hillsborough, imo there should be enough level headed r/s that come to our defense given the support we have given them.

WE AREN'T ASKING THEM TO DO THAT THOUGH, AS OUR SUPPORT HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE UNCONDITIONAL.

Unfortunately the decision this week seems to have given some carte blanche to write and say whatever they want to, or so they think. I can see this going full circle tbh and people turning back against them if at every opportunity they insist on protesting and acting in an undignified manner.

The only ones that have maintained dignity throughout are the relatives and friends of the fallen, maybe before acting they should run things by them to see if it is a manner in which they would behave, or more so... do you want this doing on your behalf ?


As for the united songs, it will be a generational thing, Nev will tell you that at the time a line was drawn, even despite having to put up with Munich songs ever since they have maintained a 'don't even go there' attitude towards songs and comments about Hillsborough, outraged when they hear kopites fire up but still refusing to be drawn into the same.
There are a great many Utd fans that deserve a bit of credit tbh. but lets face it, if you get a gathering of 80,000 people for any kind of event then you are gonna have a percentage that don't know how to behave in a decent manner, it is probably how they always behave and don't know any different. A bit of self policing by the fans wouldn't go amiss really as highlighting it gives the trolls the opportunity to make max. impact.

How about this, and this goes for any group of fans, be it r/s singing about Munich, Mancs about Hillsborough, Chelsea about Jews..... whatever, but for this purpose I'll use our fans so as to not be accused of anything....


A song starts up or a banner is unfurled..... The rest of the crowd shout them down, tear up the offending banner and then the FANS eject them from the stadium, our own fans letting the offenders know that they aren't speaking for all of us and we will not have our name besmirched by a minority. Not talking full scale kick offs btw just turfed out onto the street by their own... this would have more effect than outrage from the folks that they are trying to outrage.
 
In football terms it's bloody right. All they ever do is blame everyone but themselves.

But in terms of Hillsborough it's bang out of order, and I'd never chant it in case anyone inferred it as a reference to Hillsborough. Now is possibly the most inappropriate time to chant it for a myriad of reasons, and any muppet singing it is either referencing Hillsborough intentionally and is scum, or is just incredibly dim-witted for not realising how it might be taken.

I sincerely hope not a single sod chants anything of the like on Monday, and if some blert does I hope they're swiftly lamped over the head and booed as they're escorted off the premises and handed a life ban.
 

Thanks for your replies guys. I still whole heartily believe that when we sing it - it's funny way of having a pop at our neighbours constant 'throwing the toys out of the pram' action, whenever the F.A drags them over the coals for unsportsman like conduct or when Suarez is denied his fourth penalty, in any given match etc.. If the song has been hi-jacked by another team for their own use, we cannot be held accountable for it being twisted and used as tool of hate and anger. Which, at th end of the day, is a sad state of affairs. If the song is now to be associated with Hillsborough, due to media involvement and some one using it for anything, but fun. Then this is truly a sad day, as they really hated us singing that song.. it wound them up something rotten..and yes, it gave them even more reason to whinge :lol:

Thank you, once again (y)
 
When Landon Donavon was here We shouted USA USA for him and Tim Howard but they misunderstood and thought we where having a go at them and laughing at them over Gillette and hicks. it doesnt matter what you say or do or sing they are only going to twist it to their own advantage.
 
Ive always thought it was to do with the Evra/Suarez incident. Hillsbourough wasnt just a Liverpool FC tragedy but more of a City tragedy so id think a lot of Evertonians would never, ever sing about it and i dont think 'Always the victim' is reference to it.
 
Maybe we will all have to carry disclaimer banners before singing anything ?


ALWAYS THE.......

hang on a sec lads, we have to get the banner out first.


No, the 'This not about Hillsborough' one not the 'this is about Heysel' one ffs.


That being said, this weekend wasn't really the time for anything that wasn't in support of the ones that didn't make it home.
 
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian said:
It is about everything EXCEPT in our case, we really shouldn't have to defend ourselves about the song because some idiots claim that we are singing that and the other one about Hillsborough, imo there should be enough level headed r/s that come to our defense given the support we have given them.

WE AREN'T ASKING THEM TO DO THAT THOUGH, AS OUR SUPPORT HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE UNCONDITIONAL.

Unfortunately the decision this week seems to have given some carte blanche to write and say whatever they want to, or so they think. I can see this going full circle tbh and people turning back against them if at every opportunity they insist on protesting and acting in an undignified manner.

The only ones that have maintained dignity throughout are the relatives and friends of the fallen, maybe before acting they should run things by them to see if it is a manner in which they would behave, or more so... do you want this doing on your behalf ?


As for the united songs, it will be a generational thing, Nev will tell you that at the time a line was drawn, even despite having to put up with Munich songs ever since they have maintained a 'don't even go there' attitude towards songs and comments about Hillsborough, outraged when they hear kopites fire up but still refusing to be drawn into the same.
There are a great many Utd fans that deserve a bit of credit tbh. but lets face it, if you get a gathering of 80,000 people for any kind of event then you are gonna have a percentage that don't know how to behave in a decent manner, it is probably how they always behave and don't know any different. A bit of self policing by the fans wouldn't go amiss really as highlighting it gives the trolls the opportunity to make max. impact.
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This about 1 million per cent.

No sane Evertonian would ever include Hillsborough as part of their victimhood; United fans HAVE, by and large, acted with much greater dignity over Hillsborough than Liverpool supporters have ever afforded them over the Munich air disaster; and Liverpool fans who have just gegged in on the grief of the 96 families because recent events offer a stick to beat other supporters with, WILL end up turning decent people away from supporting a justice campaign to get sentences for the guilty.
 

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