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"Always the victim..It's never your fault" Origins..

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I do the old facebook thingy and I wanted to join a Hillborough JFT96 page to show my support.

The first one I looked at was disgusting. There was precious little to do with JFT96 - it was another LFC fap-fest, drooling over pics of Suarez (their little beacon of honesty and integrity) and all things RS related.

I joined another, more appropriately decent page.

Although it happened to Liverpool fans, Hillsborough was a Merseyside tragedy and, to a lesser extent, a national one. A lot of the fans today weren't even born - or were very young - and have no real conception of the emotional impact on THE CITY.

I think the RS fans who have shanghai'd the tragedy to make it 'all about them' ought to have a word with themselves. They seek to exclude anyone from Merseyside who isn't part of their 'support'.

As for playing YNWA at Goodison, I have no problem with it at all.

I DO have a problem with people writing messages on FB etc., signing off with YNWA. Given the bile and vitriol they post, 'YNWA' has the look of an odious historical symbol - a twisted 'freemasonry'.

Does YNWA apply only to fans of THEIR team? Can the rest of us just rot? Do we HAVE to be part of their fanbase to 'earn' any form of support or affection?

Someone should remind them that the words are "YOU'LL" not 'We'll'.
 
It is such a difficult subject though, as one wrong word or slip up and you get accused of everything from nicking the last biscuit to dropping off some flags for Fred West and helping him carry a bag down the stairs.

You can have supported the campaign all along but if you don't choose your words carefully then you are jumped on as if you have blamed them from day 1 and still blame them now.


I can't help feeling that someone like Trevor Hicks can put a stop to all of this on behalf of the victims and their families, quite simply by coming out and asking the Liverpool Supporters to not sing songs about Munich and to act with the dignity that they have. Make it known that they are not acting on the families behalf and are in fact causing more distress as it is causing retaliatory chants. All of the you started it business doesn't hold water imo and it certainly won't put an end to anything.

As with that vid that Nev posted, anyone that has been on that terrace at Leppings Lane when it has been full, will have in their mind the thought of how close was that to happening when we were there ?
I used to enjoy the swaying etc but on my last visit there (i'll be honest, I couldn't stomach going there and sitting in that end post Disaster) I ended up in a situation where I was trying to get out and got pinned at the back of the terrace, at the sides of the 'tunnel' there was a tiny ledge that stuck out about 12 inches and i watched the game perched on there.
It's not even hindsight that tells you it was a disaster waiting to happen, you used to think it as soon as kick off approached.
 
I can't think the United fans are not that stupid. They new what they were doing and especially after what's been in the news.

If the United club, Fergie weren't too bothered they wouldn't have come out said they were disappointed.

It was a certainly was a dig and look at the timing. They can't say it was ignorance. It was shouted slyly and they haven't fooled anyone. Even the media commentated about it in all the newspapers.

It was just a classless tasteless thing to do. No other clubs fans this week so far has been disrespectful.
 
Tobin said:
I can't think the United fans are not that stupid. They new what they were doing and especially after what's been in the news.

If the United club, Fergie weren't too bothered they wouldn't have come out said they were disappointed.

It was a certainly was a dig and look at the timing. They can't say it was ignorance. It was shouted slyly and they haven't fooled anyone. Even the media commentated about it in all the newspapers.

It was just a classless tasteless thing to do. No other clubs fans this week so far has been disrespectful.
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Bolton Wanderers have, immediately after the Commons Statement.


What sort of numbers are we talking here at O.T. ?
 
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian said:
Bolton Wanderers have, immediately after the Commons Statement.

I
What sort of numbers are we talking here at O.T. ?
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I didn't know that about BWs I hear it was in the 1000s and I have acknowledged it wasn't the majority before but no one in the United crowd told them to shut up or shout them down. I know if was our fans being disrespectful I would shout shut up.
 

Tobin said:
I didn't know that about BWs I hear it was in the 1000s and I have acknowledged it wasn't the majority before but no one in the United crowd told them to shut up or shout them down. I know if was our fans being disrespectful I would shout shut up.
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I met a Chelsea S.T. Holder on holiday, he had lots of tales from back in the day and tbh I already knew about some of the shiz he was telling me so know he wasn't completely full of it.

I told him that I hadn't wanted Chelsea to win anything last season because of the disgusting way that some of them had acted at Wembley, before I could go any further he assured me that the disgust that we witnessed from the Spurs fans on Youtube was nothing in comparison to what some of the Chelsea Lads felt, and that the culprits had been taken aside and the situation had been 'sorted out' in a 'lights out' kind of way, he also said that they didn't need to be banned from the Bridge as 'heads' had seen to it that they wouldn't go near there again as next time would mean that a kicking didn't suffice.

The Press Don't Want To Report Stuff Like That Though.
 
Maybe a banner stating "Football, it's not a matter of Life & Death, it doesn't even come close"

I didn't realise that powderkeg was next weekend though ffs.
I know exactly what we are all expecting as well.
 

Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing.

That's the sentence that sums them up for me, and it came from an article after the Suarez affair.

"Self pity city" has been around a lot longer - Boris Johnson in 2005-ish made reference to it - but the "always the victim, it's never your fault" is a variant on the outcome of the Suarez affair. It's a new statement.

They have events to be genuinely outraged by, which includes Hillsborough obviously, but then they also refuse to acknowledge when they're bang out of order, like over Suarez.
 
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian said:
KD7 is one of the only people that could put a stop to it all from the kopites side.
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Reckon the earlier suggestion with someone like Trevor Hicks would stop it. I don't get the Munich chants either.

It's things like this that really annoys me about football sometimes. I know we have done things in the past too - we aren't saints either.

I enjoy the piss taking chants. I do it all the time but somethings I don't take part in. Dont want us to go all politically correct. But Never liked the racist ones. Who does. I don't like the dipper ones cause I find that a bit hypocritical for me to say it being from the city - think that's more of slur on everyone from the city to be fair even though it's shouted at the Kopites.

But anything else goes.
 
Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian said:
It is about everything EXCEPT in our case, we really shouldn't have to defend ourselves about the song because some idiots claim that we are singing that and the other one about Hillsborough, imo there should be enough level headed r/s that come to our defense given the support we have given them.

WE AREN'T ASKING THEM TO DO THAT THOUGH, AS OUR SUPPORT HAS AND ALWAYS WILL BE UNCONDITIONAL.

Unfortunately the decision this week seems to have given some carte blanche to write and say whatever they want to, or so they think. I can see this going full circle tbh and people turning back against them if at every opportunity they insist on protesting and acting in an undignified manner.

The only ones that have maintained dignity throughout are the relatives and friends of the fallen, maybe before acting they should run things by them to see if it is a manner in which they would behave, or more so... do you want this doing on your behalf ?


As for the united songs, it will be a generational thing, Nev will tell you that at the time a line was drawn, even despite having to put up with Munich songs ever since they have maintained a 'don't even go there' attitude towards songs and comments about Hillsborough, outraged when they hear kopites fire up but still refusing to be drawn into the same.
There are a great many Utd fans that deserve a bit of credit tbh. but lets face it, if you get a gathering of 80,000 people for any kind of event then you are gonna have a percentage that don't know how to behave in a decent manner, it is probably how they always behave and don't know any different. A bit of self policing by the fans wouldn't go amiss really as highlighting it gives the trolls the opportunity to make max. impact.

How about this, and this goes for any group of fans, be it r/s singing about Munich, Mancs about Hillsborough, Chelsea about Jews..... whatever, but for this purpose I'll use our fans so as to not be accused of anything....


A song starts up or a banner is unfurled..... The rest of the crowd shout them down, tear up the offending banner and then the FANS eject them from the stadium, our own fans letting the offenders know that they aren't speaking for all of us and we will not have our name besmirched by a minority. Not talking full scale kick offs btw just turfed out onto the street by their own... this would have more effect than outrage from the folks that they are trying to outrage.
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Reidy, that's spot on as usual. I wish you had a red counterpart who understand the game as much as you do.
 
Tobin said:
I can't think the United fans are not that stupid. They new what they were doing and especially after what's been in the news.

If the United club, Fergie weren't too bothered they wouldn't have come out said they were disappointed.

It was a certainly was a dig and look at the timing. They can't say it was ignorance. It was shouted slyly and they haven't fooled anyone. Even the media commentated about it in all the newspapers.

It was just a classless tasteless thing to do. No other clubs fans this week so far has been disrespectful.
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I can't speak for united but I can for me and maybe a bit for 'evertonians' and that sing has never ever had any relevance to the hillsborough tragedy .

However I agree with the poster above as given the timing I can't believe united didn't know the impact of their chanting and that's very very sad and frankly a big disgusting .

To balance my post though an ex of mine and her family were big match going reds . At a BBQ they were lecturing me about hillsborough and not 'understanding ' it and talking about everton being 'disrespectful' . My response frankly was to give them a lecture and they soon appeared embarrassed , one of them a younger lad was kicking off about united chanting about hillsborough except he did call them united but 'munichs' . The irony of his outrage over chants whilst referring to the opponent by another disaster sums up the problem & attitude of some football fans particularly the younger generation & when I pointed it out I actually think it was beyond his intelligence to grasp it which was sad and also informative I suppose .
 

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