2022/23 Anthony Gordon

[Lanolin]

No that's true, but I have no idea why Haaland has been brought into the conversation. Like obviously Haaland is better than Gordon.

Come on mate, you know exactly why he was brought into the conversation. You made an outlandish claim and instead of just holding your hands up and saying yeah I got a bit carried away there, you continue to argue that you were right but with loads of new caveats and claim that everyone who questions it is being unreasonable and/or ridiculous.

Gordon is a player with plenty of potential, but by any objective measure he is absolutely miles away from the very best players in his age bracket. As has been said before, trying to put him in that company does much more harm than good.

 

[MikeH72]

Ok mate.

A 40m+ bid, from an elite club suggests he was viewed as a player with high potential, and performing to a really good standard for a player of his age.

I'm sure there are lots of other examples of players his age and younger having bids of that level, but I cant think of many.

Whether he fulfils that potential, I dont know. I hope he does.

The reality is, most 21 year olds are very inconsistent in the PL. Ronaldo got 9 goals when he was 21. It's a tough league.

Man City paid £100m for Jack Grealish, which would make him the current best player in the world by the logic you’ve just used. Marc Cucurella must also be the best left back in the world, and Darwin Nunez must be better than Haaland. Ludicrous bids from desperate teams is not the barometer of a player’s quality.

 

[catcherintherye]

Right ok. Here is a player who is exactly the same age as Gordon almost to the day (because that is crucial) AND plays exactly the same position.



Once again, Anthony Gordon is not one of the top 21 year olds in Europe. And that’s fine btw, you don’t have to be to play for Everton.

I agree on most of that.

But prior to the season starting, when the comment was made, not sure I'd have said he was miles ahead of Gordon as he hadnt done it in any sort of decent league.

But hes excellent and from what I've seen better than Gordon.

I didnt say he was the best, but in a grouping. That seems reasonable enough, and probably underpins with Chelsea and Spurs bid for him, Dan Ashworth identified him, and Pep/Klopp really likes him.

 

[MikeH72]

Come on mate, you know exactly why he was brought into the conversation. You made an outlandish claim and instead of just holding your hands up and saying yeah I got a bit carried away there, you continue to argue that you were right but with loads of new caveats and claim that everyone who questions it is being unreasonable and/or ridiculous.

Gordon is a player with plenty of potential, but by any objective measure he is absolutely miles away from the very best players in his age bracket. As has been said before, trying to put him in that company does much more harm than good.

It’s starting to remind me of the Barkley thread circa 2016, when the prevailing narrative on here was that he must be better than Gerrard and Lampard at the same age because look at stats bro. I remember trying to bring that thread back down to earth at the time and got absolutely rounded on and slated as if I was some sort of Barkley hater for merely suggesting he was a decent Premier League player and that those players were many levels above him even at that age. Look how that one turned out.

We need to stop heaping these accolades on our young players because it in turn leads to disappointment when they inevitably fail to live up to the expectations. Gordon currently is an average Premier League player. If he becomes an Osman-level dependable squad player long term for us I’ll be absolutely delighted. There is nothing that suggests to me he’s going to be some superstar.

 

[catcherintherye]

Come on mate, you know exactly why he was brought into the conversation. You made an outlandish claim and instead of just holding your hands up and saying yeah I got a bit carried away there, you continue to argue that you were right but with loads of new caveats and claim that everyone who questions it is being unreasonable and/or ridiculous.

Gordon is a player with plenty of potential, but by any objective measure he is absolutely miles away from the very best players in his age bracket. As has been said before, trying to put him in that company does much more harm than good.

At no point did I say he was better than Haaland though. Haaland who was not 21 when I said it, and doesnt even play his position.

If I wanted to include Haaland, I would have included age ranges that he fell into.

I'm not against having a debate around what I have said. The lad at Napoli who's been mentioned I agree is better than Gordon. I dont watch the Georgian league, so last summer wasnt aware of him, but he looks really good. I'm not sure why someone like Haaland is thrown in when it's very obvious he was excluded from the criteria set.

Also, it should be added, in other threads I was quite clear Haaland would annihilate the league for City, and probably team and individual records while here. Hes obviously on another level to Gordon, and its disingenuous to suggest I ever said Gordon was even vaguely comparable when I deliberately set parameters so as to exclude Haaland.

If we want to argue with what has been said, and people feel it was ludicrous (which is fair enough) why dont people outline the number of 21 year olds who have been sold for over 40m? It's quite an exclusive list Gordon would be on, no? That doesnt make me right, but shows there is clearly a lot of support from those within the industry, employed to make these calls?

 

[MikeH72]

At no point did I say he was better than Haaland though. Haaland who was not 21 when I said it, and doesnt even play his position.

If I wanted to include Haaland, I would have included age ranges that he fell into.

I'm not against having a debate around what I have said. The lad at Napoli who's been mentioned I agree is better than Gordon. I dont watch the Georgian league, so last summer wasnt aware of him, but he looks really good. I'm not sure why someone like Haaland is thrown in when it's very obvious he was excluded from the criteria set.

Also, it should be added, in other threads I was quite clear Haaland would annihilate the league for City, and probably team and individual records while here. Hes obviously on another level to Gordon, and its disingenuous to suggest I ever said Gordon was even vaguely comparable when I deliberately set parameters so as to exclude Haaland.

If we want to argue with what has been said, and people feel it was ludicrous (which is fair enough) why dont people outline the number of 21 year olds who have been sold for over 40m? It's quite an exclusive list Gordon would be on, no? That doesnt make me right, but shows there is clearly a lot of support from those within the industry, employed to make these calls?

Why does it matter if they were sold for £40m? That lad at Napoli wasn’t bought for anywhere near that and you acknowledge that he’s a much superior player. I don’t know why you place so much importance on what Chelsea’s clueless Yank owner was willing to throw around on panic buys. Did anyone else in the world even consider matching the bid?

 

[catcherintherye]

Man City paid £100m for Jack Grealish, which would make him the current best player in the world by the logic you’ve just used. Marc Cucurella must also be the best left back in the world, and Darwin Nunez must be better than Haaland. Ludicrous bids from desperate teams is not the barometer of a player’s quality.

It's more just an indication that those within the game clearly view him very favourably.

All of the examples you give:
Grealish is an excellent player, who almost single handedly got Villa towards the top half. Hes not worth 100m, but hes obviously very good.

Nunez: We all have a bit of a laugh about him, and hes raw, but hes talented. Hes not better than Haaland (and will never be) but Haaland can be used to prove any player is bad. Nunez when he gets rounded will probably come good.

Cucurella: I agree to a degree. I think hes a solid left back. Lucas Digne level. I didnt see 50m. Hes good.

That's all I'm saying with Gordon, that relative to a 21 year old, hes obviously viewed very favourably, as you wouldn't have Chelsea, Spurs, Newcastle etc tracking you.

 

[catcherintherye]

It’s starting to remind me of the Barkley thread circa 2016, when the prevailing narrative on here was that he must be better than Gerrard and Lampard at the same age because look at stats bro. I remember trying to bring that thread back down to earth at the time and got absolutely rounded on and slated as if I was some sort of Barkley hater for merely suggesting he was a decent Premier League player and that those players were many levels above him even at that age. Look how that one turned out.

We need to stop heaping these accolades on our young players because it in turn leads to disappointment when they inevitably fail to live up to the expectations. Gordon currently is an average Premier League player. If he becomes an Osman-level dependable squad player long term for us I’ll be absolutely delighted. There is nothing that suggests to me he’s going to be some superstar.

I agree with most of this. I've said repeatedly just because someone is good at 21, doesnt mean hes great at 25 and actually we have been bad at developing between those ages.

Barkley was outstanding at 21, the same as Alli, but they stopped developing and in the end went backwards.

I agree with Gordon being average, he may even be below average, but for 21 that is quite good. Most 21 year olds are awful. That Elliot is 19 and they go on about him being a generational talent, and hes a liability currently.

For the reason outlined above, I'd sell Gordon. For a plethora of reasons, I dont think we develop players that well (tldr we have a bad culture through the club) so I would take the cash on most players at that age. Overall, we will make more money than we lose.

 

[catcherintherye]

Why does it matter if they were sold for £40m? That lad at Napoli wasn’t bought for anywhere near that and you acknowledge that he’s a much superior player. I don’t know why you place so much importance on what Chelsea’s clueless Yank owner was willing to throw around on panic buys. Did anyone else in the world even consider matching the bid?

Spurs and Newcastle were also going to bid heavily, I have no idea how much, but I'd imagine it was a sizeable offer.

Theres a reason these clubs want to sign him, and its because they see a lad with high potential.

I'm not one for trying to call people out or whatever, as it's a forum and everyone will say things that at times dont work out. But honestly, I remember stating if Gordon were to go, CL type teams would be in for him. That was laughed off as it would never happen. The reality is, it did happen. Those sort of teams dont bid for players who arent either good, or have the potential to be excellent.

 

[Lanolin]

At no point did I say he was better than Haaland though. Haaland who was not 21 when I said it, and doesnt even play his position.

If I wanted to include Haaland, I would have included age ranges that he fell into.

I'm not against having a debate around what I have said. The lad at Napoli who's been mentioned I agree is better than Gordon. I dont watch the Georgian league, so last summer wasnt aware of him, but he looks really good. I'm not sure why someone like Haaland is thrown in when it's very obvious he was excluded from the criteria set.

Also, it should be added, in other threads I was quite clear Haaland would annihilate the league for City, and probably team and individual records while here. Hes obviously on another level to Gordon, and its disingenuous to suggest I ever said Gordon was even vaguely comparable when I deliberately set parameters so as to exclude Haaland.

If we want to argue with what has been said, and people feel it was ludicrous (which is fair enough) why dont people outline the number of 21 year olds who have been sold for over 40m? It's quite an exclusive list Gordon would be on, no? That doesnt make me right, but shows there is clearly a lot of support from those within the industry, employed to make these calls?

Your original post on the subject didn’t specify anything about having to be younger than Gordon or mention playing in the same position as him. As I said, those things and the idea there needs to have been a £40m+ bid for them are caveats that you’ve added on later rather than just admitting that you made an overly bold claim when pissed after a game or whatever.

Mike’s right, this sort of thing just leads to perfectly good careers being labelled as failures because they never hit the heights that were unfairly expected of them, I find it frustrating.

 

[EFC_FRANCIS]

At no point did I say he was better than Haaland though. Haaland who was not 21 when I said it, and doesnt even play his position.

If I wanted to include Haaland, I would have included age ranges that he fell into.

I'm not against having a debate around what I have said. The lad at Napoli who's been mentioned I agree is better than Gordon. I dont watch the Georgian league, so last summer wasnt aware of him, but he looks really good. I'm not sure why someone like Haaland is thrown in when it's very obvious he was excluded from the criteria set.

Also, it should be added, in other threads I was quite clear Haaland would annihilate the league for City, and probably team and individual records while here. Hes obviously on another level to Gordon, and its disingenuous to suggest I ever said Gordon was even vaguely comparable when I deliberately set parameters so as to exclude Haaland.

If we want to argue with what has been said, and people feel it was ludicrous (which is fair enough) why dont people outline the number of 21 year olds who have been sold for over 40m? It's quite an exclusive list Gordon would be on, no? That doesnt make me right, but shows there is clearly a lot of support from those within the industry, employed to make these calls?

But Gordon isn't on that list? Any number of 21 year olds could've been sold for 40 million but never for whatever reason. Gordon included.

 

[MikeH72]

Spurs and Newcastle were also going to bid heavily, I have no idea how much, but I'd imagine it was a sizeable offer.

Theres a reason these clubs want to sign him, and its because they see a lad with high potential.

I'm not one for trying to call people out or whatever, as it's a forum and everyone will say things that at times dont work out. But honestly, I remember stating if Gordon were to go, CL type teams would be in for him. That was laughed off as it would never happen. The reality is, it did happen. Those sort of teams dont bid for players who arent either good, or have the potential to be excellent.

But they didn’t bid for him did they? That was a newspaper rumour that never led to anything. There were rumours that City and United were going to bid for Davies a few years ago.

 

[catcherintherye]

Your original post on the subject didn’t specify anything about having to be younger than Gordon or mention playing in the same position as him. As I said, those things and the idea there needs to have been a £40m+ bid for them are caveats that you’ve added on later rather than just admitting that you made an overly bold claim when pissed after a game.

Mike’s right, this sort of thing just leads to perfectly good careers being labelled as failures because they never hit the heights that were unfairly expected of them, I find it frustrating.

I'm not going to dredge back through posts, but I remember saying young players, clarifying that this was his age.

Haaland is a whole different category. I dont know how much clearer I can make it. They're incomparable, are not the same age, were not the same age at the point of the comment, and do not play the same position.

As for being drunk or whatever after a game, I wasnt drunk, and it was made in pre season from memory, so couldnt have been after a game.

Why would somebody have to be drunk to think that Gordon is one of the better talented players, of his age or younger in Europe as of last summer? Were Chelsea's recruitment team drunk? Or Dan Ashworth? Or Conte? All of who'm bid/enquired after him for a pretty substantial fee?

Maybe someone just has a different opinion to a player, without needing to be drunk to do so?

On the other point, I have not labelled his career as a failure, or Osmans career, who I've generally defended as being a good servant. Surely though, what's more likely to trash someone's career is to insert an older, better player who is arguably the best player-of any age- into a discussion by way of some measuring stick? His career, and just about anybody elses career over the coming decades will look a failure compared to Haaland.

 

[catcherintherye]

But Gordon isn't on that list? Any number of 21 year olds could've been sold for 40 million but never for whatever reason. Gordon included.

Well I'm happy to see the list of those who were sold, or had a bid of that level turned down. It will be a small list.

 

[MikeH72]

I'm not going to dredge back through posts, but I remember saying young players, clarifying that this was his age.

Haaland is a whole different category. I dont know how much clearer I can make it. They're incomparable, are not the same age, were not the same age at the point of the comment, and do not play the same position.

As for being drunk or whatever after a game, I wasnt drunk, and it was made in pre season from memory, so couldnt have been after a game.

Why would somebody have to be drunk to think that Gordon is one of the better talented players, of his age or younger in Europe as of last summer? Were Chelsea's recruitment team drunk? Or Dan Ashworth? Or Conte? All of who'm bid/enquired after him for a pretty substantial fee?

Maybe someone just has a different opinion to a player, without needing to be drunk to do so?

On the other point, I have not labelled his career as a failure, or Osmans career, who I've generally defended as being a good servant. Surely though, what's more likely to trash someone's career is to insert an older, better player who is arguably the best player-of any age- into a discussion by way of some measuring stick? His career, and just about anybody elses career over the coming decades will look a failure compared to Haaland.

Head for bed before med