Are we going to end up with a pop gun attack?

[ham2]

Arsed tldr

 

[Thomasc]

That old legendary footballing term "pop gun attack"

 

[davek]

@davek i really think we are currently just edging our bets at present, until the board and koeman know for certain if lukaku will be sold. Everton have set an asking price, if it is met he will be sold. That money could then be used if koeman so wishes to buy a player of the ilk of icardi or the like.

That's a fair point. Going for an out and out attacker right now might affect negotiations with a buyer for Lukaku as past of our pitch would have to be that we have to replace him. However, other pieces are beginning to fall into place: the focus on wide players who can come in and operate as a goal getter, a high sitting MF that would go with a false nine system.

I honestly dont think we'll see a usual shape for us this season in our attacking formations. This will be a departure. I think Koeman was fulsome in praise of Liverpool early last season when they were blowing teams away and we know he wants a full press game up front. I think we are headed down that route and we wont see a forward spearheading our attack.

 

[Jacko93]

I mentioned in the summer transfer thread my concern that with the very likely departure of Lukaku we are faced with an almighty struggle next season to get a striker in to fill the massive chasm he'll leave. So far we have not been linked with the type of marquee signing that we could reasonably believe could come in and take up at least most of the slack in terms of getting on the scoresheet as often as RL has in his time here. Sandro may or may not come in. However, I dont see him as a type that will lead the line in the fashion that we as a club have been used to with our tradition. The existing players we have upfront are unimpressive. For one they cant be adapted to the role of an out and out forward and for another they look pretty limited in what they do in their 'proper job', be that Bolasie and Lookman attacking from out wide or Calvert-Lewin loitering without intent in behind the striker/final third.

Here's my suspicion: I think Koeman will forsake going for a like for like replacement for Lukaku this summer. He looks to me to be thinking of going with a type of attacking unit adopted over the park and adopted elsewhere: a high pressing front three with an advanced MF (probably Klaassens) to augment the attack by making forward runs into the box.

I think this will be madness for us. First, we wont have the class to pull that one off: Lallana/Firmino/Mane + Coutinho are very good quality. That's how they blitzed the PL in the first half of last season and picked up the points that eventually seen them over the CL spot line. Our front 3+1 would be nowhere near that level of quality. Second, we have a lot more games this season and what happened to Liverpool (and what happens to other teams who adopt a manic high press) over the course of the season would come home to roost here too: we'd have a core first team on its knees and/or dropping down with injuries by late winter.

Anyway, that's my thoughts/fears on what I believe this summer's attacking incomings are being prioritised for. Hopefully Koeman goes out and blows that out of the water with a Giroud signing, but I really think we are headed into 2017/18 with a re-shaped and dangerous departure from what we traditionally have gone for before.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that I like the formula of a hard working front 3, Liverpools problem IMO was that they never had the 6 players minimum that you need to be able to pull that off in our league. With continued investment in the right areas, we could. That's why I feel that Liverpool bought Salah, not to replace anybody, but to give them an option if Mane etc aren't there.

On the other point, I do feel that we seem to have decent quality coming in according to reports, but I have to admit, I know next to nothing about any of them that have been bought/reportedly bought, so naturally I am yet to be convinced. The bit that I do think works in our favour though, is that they will all have been bought by the same manager, who along with Steve Walsh appears to be buying for a system. They have targeted players and are getting them, as far as we can understand. That has to be encouraging, doesn't it?

Koeman used Pelle at Southampton like he would use Giroud, but is that the way he wants us to play? Dunno but I suspect not, time will tell. We do have a history of big target men, some of our greatest and most revered players have been just that, but its time to write our own history now, and if that means a switch in style of striker we buy, then I'm all for it.

 

[davek]

*moves to Current affairs.

Oh, wait.

I don't think Koeman wants like for like in any replacement for Lukaku - I think he'll look for more intensity/movement in the final third. He paid a record fee for Long at Southampton...

That's what I'm saying, but at S'ton he had a target man like Pelle. I dont think he'll do that here next season.

 

[billyblue80]

Sandro, Dembele? with Gray and or Niang and DCL as back up?

Also he's expecting to spread the goals around the team more with the goals and assists from likes of Klassen/Barkley/Sig, and Mirallas/Lookman which is easier with a player up front who will bring others into the game more. I wouldn't worry yet its not even July yet we appear to be acting methodically, as shown by today's long term striking purchase. When Rom goes I expect two strikers in.

 

[Death]

I mentioned in the summer transfer thread my concern that with the very likely departure of Lukaku we are faced with an almighty struggle next season to get a striker in to fill the massive chasm he'll leave. So far we have not been linked with the type of marquee signing that we could reasonably believe could come in and take up at least most of the slack in terms of getting on the scoresheet as often as RL has in his time here. Sandro may or may not come in. However, I dont see him as a type that will lead the line in the fashion that we as a club have been used to with our tradition. The existing players we have upfront are unimpressive. For one they cant be adapted to the role of an out and out forward and for another they look pretty limited in what they do in their 'proper job', be that Bolasie and Lookman attacking from out wide or Calvert-Lewin loitering without intent in behind the striker/final third.

Here's my suspicion: I think Koeman will forsake going for a like for like replacement for Lukaku this summer. He looks to me to be thinking of going with a type of attacking unit adopted over the park and adopted elsewhere: a high pressing front three with an advanced MF (probably Klaassens) to augment the attack by making forward runs into the box.

I think this will be madness for us. First, we wont have the class to pull that one off: Lallana/Firmino/Mane + Coutinho are very good quality. That's how they blitzed the PL in the first half of last season and picked up the points that eventually seen them over the CL spot line. Our front 3+1 would be nowhere near that level of quality. Second, we have a lot more games this season and what happened to Liverpool (and what happens to other teams who adopt a manic high press) over the course of the season would come home to roost here too: we'd have a core first team on its knees and/or dropping down with injuries by late winter.

Anyway, that's my thoughts/fears on what I believe this summer's attacking incomings are being prioritised for. Hopefully Koeman goes out and blows that out of the water with a Giroud signing, but I really think we are headed into 2017/18 with a re-shaped and dangerous departure from what we traditionally have gone for before.

Thoughts?

A system relying on one player like that is a bad one. Goals will be shared and there will be plenty. This transfer window hasn't even got started. Things have changed. Don't be afraid of change.

 

[davek]

..I think we need to wait and see. If Lukaku goes it might be a different team model with a broader attacking spectrum as opposed to a CF who is the spearhead/focal point. There is more than one way to skin a cat as we showed in the pre and post Lineker days of the mid-80s.

Only time will tell.

Lineker season was generally seen as failure though mate. I just dont think it's us and if it is adopted and struggles early on the crowd will be up in arms.

It's just not us, IMO. Not only that it's ineffective and excruciating to watch a team without a recognised front man.

 

[davek]

A system relying on one player like that is a bad one. Goals will be shared and there will be plenty. This transfer window hasn't even got started. Things have changed. Don't be afraid of change.

I do though. We are selling a known entity in Lukaku and may be embracing an alien system to get past the impact of that sale.

 

[AndyC]

That's what I'm saying, but at S'ton he had a target man like Pelle. I dont think he'll do that here next season.

I wonder if he'd be tempted - if we can retain Lukaku - bringing in a Giroud to be the target man for Lukaku with a high energy, high pressing midfield behind ?

 

[nsno-chris]

The snake may not even be sold

 

[Nymzee]

Liverpool sold Saurez, didn't replace him with a striker and they're back in the CL. We finished 5th, 11th, 11th and 7th with Rom as our main striker. Why is this necessarily the best system to try and sustain? Maybe a change in the types of forwards we have will push us further up the table. It's not like we're losing a striker that's took as into the CL.

You have to evolve in the PL to succeed.

 

[Smig1878]

I honestly do not see your dismissal of the players in situ but I do agree that if we sell Rom we need a spear head but not Giroud. Buying him would whole heartedly stop the pressing game you seem to suggest RK will be setting us up to play.

I have a different view in what we are looking at constructing here, Calvert-Lewis is a bit of a unit but has pace and plays with his head up, Lookman on the break in current football is usually only stopped on the run with a foul so maintaining possession of the ball. Sandro appears a good finisher but I'm not encyclopaedic on his best position. We are building a solid team to soak up and play counter attack, klassan, Davies and Guaye all have an eye for a through ball as does Baines and Mori can ping it about. I see us set up to absorb more and play on the break, probably as a nod to our poor away form last season.

 

[degsy]

I mentioned in the summer transfer thread my concern that with the very likely departure of Lukaku we are faced with an almighty struggle next season to get a striker in to fill the massive chasm he'll leave. So far we have not been linked with the type of marquee signing that we could reasonably believe could come in and take up at least most of the slack in terms of getting on the scoresheet as often as RL has in his time here. Sandro may or may not come in. However, I dont see him as a type that will lead the line in the fashion that we as a club have been used to with our tradition. The existing players we have upfront are unimpressive. For one they cant be adapted to the role of an out and out forward and for another they look pretty limited in what they do in their 'proper job', be that Bolasie and Lookman attacking from out wide or Calvert-Lewin loitering without intent in behind the striker/final third.

Here's my suspicion: I think Koeman will forsake going for a like for like replacement for Lukaku this summer. He looks to me to be thinking of going with a type of attacking unit adopted over the park and adopted elsewhere: a high pressing front three with an advanced MF (probably Klaassens) to augment the attack by making forward runs into the box.

I think this will be madness for us. First, we wont have the class to pull that one off: Lallana/Firmino/Mane + Coutinho are very good quality. That's how they blitzed the PL in the first half of last season and picked up the points that eventually seen them over the CL spot line. Our front 3+1 would be nowhere near that level of quality. Second, we have a lot more games this season and what happened to Liverpool (and what happens to other teams who adopt a manic high press) over the course of the season would come home to roost here too: we'd have a core first team on its knees and/or dropping down with injuries by late winter.

Anyway, that's my thoughts/fears on what I believe this summer's attacking incomings are being prioritised for. Hopefully Koeman goes out and blows that out of the water with a Giroud signing, but I really think we are headed into 2017/18 with a re-shaped and dangerous departure from what we traditionally have gone for before.

Thoughts?

Ask me in Oct/Nov.

 

[davek]

I'm relatively excited by the choices of targets. I think we've been far too reliant on Lukaku for goals which has meant little coming from elsewhere. For both Lukaku and us a change of scenery would be good. Options is what I think we need and Koeman seems to be going that way.
Lukaku is a great finisher but lacks willingness at our club to put in a team shift on a regular basis, maybe somewhere else he may not be so indulged and that part of his game might improve, but I don't see that happening for us.
Our midfield is looking quite strong which is what forwards need, different players that are adaptable. Schneiderlin I reckon will command and dictate midfield allowing better options ahead, him and Gueye should be a bedrock for forward play, it's just behind them that needs an addition or two. Add in blooding some younger players and I think injuries aside we might surprise ourselves.
Lukaku staying or going is becoming a meh situation and I think it's being handled correctly.

The MF looks very strong. The attacking unit looks terrible, and I have zero confidence in Koeman buying good attacking replacements.

I suspect we'll see a 6 or 7 players scoring 4/5/6 goals and it really not adding up to much.

I cant abide these 'false 9' teams or anything that doesn't have experts for a job needing doing. It looks like a bodge job....and the quality of players we'd likely get to carry out that system would be bang average.