beckham is back!

[Bruce Wayne]

Who else would you pick though? With the number of foreign players in the PL at the moment you have to accept that there simply aren't many good English players. Our clubs do ok in the CL because the top clubs can afford the best foreign players. Look at how our clubs have done in the UEFA Cup. Pretty rubbish in general and that's why our national team is poor. We simply don't have any depth in talent and the youth academies around the country aren't producing players of suitable technique to do anything at the top level.

 

[monty]

Who else would you pick though? With the number of foreign players in the PL at the moment you have to accept that there simply aren't many good English players. Our clubs do ok in the CL because the top clubs can afford the best foreign players. Look at how our clubs have done in the UEFA Cup. Pretty rubbish in general and that's why our national team is poor. We simply don't have any depth in talent and the youth academies around the country aren't producing players of suitable technique to do anything at the top level.

That is an enigma that the sport must address now, without any further delay. The accemy programme was set up to generate a whole new era orf top quality English players and it simply has failed. IMO the entire training programme for youngsters needs addressing not just from technique but incentive and suitability. In years gone by kids came through local clubs, got spotted by scouts and moved up, that was successful until they changed it. Nowadays if a kid beats three oponents outside a mud hut in Africa he is taken away from his parents, has his life signed away by some money grabbing agent, shoved on to a plane and plonked into a G14 clubs academy, that is disgusting.

The financial incentives for any youngster to come good have never been and will never be better, in fact that corner may have already been reached. Competitive school games should return at once, no child/gaurdian allowed to sign any professional or semi professional forms until that child comes of age thus making it illegal for those kids to develop anywhere other than in their natural locallity. The actual method of training seems to be wrong/flawed because the over all failure of the present system is that marked no doubt natural ability is drilled out of them and is substituted by this is how its done by the book drill turning natural talent into automoton boredom.

 

[Rob]

who else you ask, well beckham

as for not having players who are good enough, I would say that isn't true, I believe it is truer to say that English players have less of a chance to play at the top level and develop now than they did during bobby robson's glorious England era.

I bet the English players from teams 5-8 out number the ones from 1-4.

Maybe you can find out Bruce?

 

[monty]

who else you ask, well beckham

as for not having players who are good enough, I would say that isn't true, I believe it is truer to say that English players have less of a chance to play at the top level and develop now than they did during bobby robson's glorious England era.
I bet the English players from teams 5-8 out number the ones from 1-4.

Maybe you can find out Bruce?

When was that then :blink: :blink:

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah but where are the good English players Rob? Barcelona have produced dozens of Arteta'esq players recently, from Guardiola all the way through to Iniesta. Where is the English Arteta? Where are the English midfielders capable of outpassing the opposition? Barton? Jenas? Please.

What strikers do we have capable of scoring on the international stage? Owen yes, Rooney yes. Then who? Defoe isn't good enough, AJ is PL standard, ditto Bent, Crouch?

I posted a thread up a while back asking for each PL sides youth-based team from the last decade or so. I put up our team and we don't have a goalkeeper or enough midfielders to put a 4 out. I expect other teams have similar problems. With the money the PL has this is terrible. The Dutch and Portugese can produce better players with less people and less money so why can't we? There has been numerous reports from leading coaches saying how the English game remains dominated by competition at a young age (pre-teens), with not enough time devoted to technique. I'm sure we're all familiar with the football dad tirades from the touchline telling their boy to get stuck in etc.

I'm inclined to think that we need a change in attitude as a nation to ever deliver a World Cup winning side again, because against the best teams this 'get stuck in' attitude will never succeed.

 

[Rob]

where are they? Getting over looked and never given a chance in sat on the subs bench or playing championship football.

If moyes hadn't plucked out Lescott from wolves would he now be given a chance to play for England (albeit England b) no of course he wouldn't.

Whether you're good enough or not doesn't matter to the FA, its who you play for they care about.

The difference with the spanish, dutch, portuguese leagues is I bet they arenot flooded with foreign players, are the top 4 teams in each of these leagues struggling to name spanish, dutch or portuguese players?

 

[Latch]

Your manager was 'big' enough to change his mind, good luck with qualifying.

 

[Cal]

Sexy Becksy is back. Wouldn't go as far as saying he's one of the greatest ever players, but at least he wants to play for England. Always gives his best and he's still got an awesome free kick and crossing skills. Well worth having in for the Estonia game

Why not though?

I've never seen anyone with his range and technique of crossing, free kicks, passing.

No one can cross a ball like him, always perfect and accurate onto someones head, not alot of players can always EVERY time pass the ball 40 odd yards, very pinpoint to the player.

Not alot of players can curl a ball and strike a free kick like him.

 

[SuitsBlue]

considering the youth development, whats the line 'we hope to bring one youth team player into the full squad each season'

are clubs stretched so thinly that they have to put all their hopes into one youth prospect? the current climate of players we released and are now interested in is a sign this system isnt working (jagielka, barton).

It has long been the way that the everton senior squad is threadbare,does this penny pinching (economising keith?) extend to the youth setups?

All boils down to money, never been so much in the game as it is now, yet so little actually gets implemented in bringing tomorrows players through.

And we're really [Poor language removed], i have no idea where our £contribution to a new stadium is going to come from, temperatures are already rising about the size of the transfer purse, and getting uppity about progress and takeovers and keeping up and standing still.

If Fifa brought a rule in, minimum four native (wales, scotland, ireland, england) players in the 16 per league match would counteract the current malais in youth development.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Personally I don't buy this 'not enough money' argument as a reason for poor youth products. I'm sure most PL teams have more money than the likes of Ajax, St Etienne or Sporting Lisbon and yet none get close to their youth systems. Lets face it, the majority of youth coaching is to do with technique. In my eyes that involves a decent pitch (indoor and outdoor) and excellent coaching, with some good scouting involved. Hardly breaking the bank is it?

The sports science element comes into things at a later date when fitness is worked on. Remember the likes of Messi and Scholes were thought too small by many but are two of the best around now because both have exceptional technique.

Lets start looking at it as an investment rather than a cost. After all, how much would the likes of Neville (both), Beckham, Scholes, Giggs, Butt, Brown, Fletcher, O'Shea and Richardson have cost Man Utd? As it is they've probably earnt somewhere around £40 million from the sale of youth players over the past decade, not to mention the thousands of appearances between them.

 

[SuitsBlue]

isnt manure something of a rare thing? a so called golden generation similar to the one west ham had 4 or 5 years ago?

manure released savage and dublin to name only two.

the point about investment is there are no sure fire things, and injury plays its part as well. appleton at man ure is a recent example of a career going tits up, i wonder what amount of cash went into finding him and nurturing his talent only for it to come to nothing.

the comparrison with ajax, and lisbon, and etienne, these clubs are now feeder clubs for the BIG leagues, being the prem, serie a, and la liga.

look at psv, they scout and develop good players, and sell them on, its how they exist and maintain their upper position in their respective league.

Reo-Coker is my current hero, not because he's a two faced nark, but because he was playing sunday league - got spotted for mk dons, and a year later was a prem player... magic !

the highs and lows of modern football dictate that the pressure on finding new talent means any that wanders in off the street... vaughan, kissock, baxter, rodwell, rooney are prime for the ultra rich to entice... chelsea and the [Poor language removed] have both recently been proved to be tapping up the big name youth of the moment.

wheres the incentive to english sides to invest in players only to have them leave and slap you (the club that nurtured them) in the face.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

None of the clubs I mentioned have the money to keep their best players though. With the new tv deal we would have and I'm pretty sure that if we suddenly unearthed three or four world class youth players then we'd move up into the top 4 on a consistent basis because we have a great foundation to build from at the moment.

 

[Rob]

I think Moyes is doing a great job with out youth, although I was hoping for huges and boyle to make a step up in the coming season, but with hughes gone and boyle not heard of after his back injury that doesn't look likely.

vidarsson, kissock, rodwell, vaughan, anichebe, we know the two front lads have got the goods but not the experience but have the others?
Be nice to see Bjarni on the bench instead of BT, naysmith or VDM.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How do you define great? For me the Arsenal youth system is great because they have a youth team that can reach the Carling Cup final. Vaughan and Anichebe have done well. Kissock and Rodwell are still very much unknowns (don't forget the likes of Peter Clarke captained England at youth level) and Vidarsson isn't knocking doors down either. I wouldn't call that great, especially when compared with other sides.

 

[Rob]

How many of those youth players have they bought though Bruce?

AFAIK Arsenal are one of those clubs that takes advantage of many MANY so called feeder clubs all over the world and they pay a fair bit for the privilege too.