2019/20 Bernard

[ToffeeTim]

Our fans have complained a lot about guys with weak mentalities, and weak personalities, yet when I suggest we shouldn’t allow someone to stay with mental health issue. The knives are out for me, haha couldn’t make it up.

Having mental health issues is not relevant to how he performs on the pitch or the attitude he shows.

I'm sure there have been lots of top level footballers who have performed every week yet have had struggles off the pitch. The idea they are weak and should have been let go from their clubs is ridiculous

 

[Theblueview]

You used the word woke to describe someone who had empathy for him. You also made a completely fatuous war reference. You were basically suggesting he should ‘man up’ as far as I could see.

Yeh make up a fictional word I didn’t use. And make up a context I didn’t use, to score points. Nice one.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Yeh make up a fictional word I didn’t use. And make up a context I didn’t use, to score points. Nice one.

Oh look you’ve gone for the victimhood angle. Shocked to see this.

 

[Theblueview]

Having mental health issues is not relevant to how he performs on the pitch or the attitude he shows.

I'm sure there have been lots of top level footballers who have performed every week yet have had struggles off the pitch. The idea they are weak and should have been let go from their clubs is ridiculous

Of course it’s relevant to how they perform. The original point was the poster suggested he was playing within himself because of his issue, and he should have another crack of the whip.

 

[Theblueview]

Oh look you’ve gone for the victimhood angle. Shocked to see this.

Just nonsense coming out your keyboard, at least quote what I say if you want to have a valid discussion, not make stuff up in your head.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Yeh make up a fictional word I didn’t use. And make up a context I didn’t use, to score points. Nice one.

What you’re claiming you never used the term woke?

 

[ToffeeTim]

Of course it’s relevant to how they perform. The original point was the poster suggested he was playing within himself because of his issue, and he should have another crack of the whip.

Having mental health problems does not mean a player will play badly.

Having mental health problems does not mean someone will start doing their job terribly.

It obviously could have an effect in some circumstances but its far too complex an issue to make sweeping generalisations.

Lots of people with genuine issues hide them away and the people around them have no sense of their troubles. Thats not a healthy situation for someone to deal with if they bottle everything up, but it shows that people can still perform in their jobs.

Its completely fine to not rate a player on their ability and think they should be moved on. I tend to agree on Bernard. But to use his health issues as a reason to get rid of him is ridiculous.

 

[mill]

They’re interlinked, i didn’t mean to be offensive, but in your example of a surgeon or pilot in that situation I’d rather they both left the profession.
Same with Bernard, it’s not a personal attack against him.

They aren’t interlinked in the way you think.
People who have the temperament to perform at the upper echelons of their discipline are *more likely* to suffer from mental health issues as they work in high pressure environments.

Your logic is floored. You are assuming that people with mental health issues are in some way weak. But mental health can be impacted by lots of different things. The loss of a parent or child, a divorce, financial issues, age etc.

Those kinds of things can affect everyone. People have different capacities for stress (I mean that in the broadest term and not just work stress). irrespective of your capacity there will be moments where you your limit and your mental health is affected.

It’s part of life, it affects EVERYONE, irrespective of what you do as a job. Irrespective of how successful they are.

Successful people are successful because they have the ability and the temperament to get there.

You don’t become a surgeon without the ability to work under pressure and the conviction to get to that level of expertise or the intelligence to absorb the level of knowledge required to cut people open. But that does not mean that a surgeon cannot have mental health issues.

 

[mill]

You can very much have empathy with him as a person, but from a football perspective I see guys with mental health issues. Lennon, Gomes, Keane, and now Bernard coming out publicly saying they’ve had issues is VERY alarming. It’s a partly a reason why we’re pretty rubbish.

Have you ever seen the last dance.
Jordan, pippen and rodman all talk about their mental health issues during that documentary.
they were responsible for one of the most successful franchises in sporting history.
And Jordan is arguably the greatest sportsman of all time.

 

[kev]

They’re interlinked, i didn’t mean to be offensive, but in your example of a surgeon or pilot in that situation I’d rather they both left the profession.
Same with Bernard, it’s not a personal attack against him.

You're basically saying that people who are suffering from mental ill health should retire from their jobs?
You don't think that they should be encouraged to talk about their issues and overcome them? Surely you realise that the vast majority of mental health issues are temporary?
As I said, you're having a nightmare here.
Give in before you make yourself look even more ridiculous.

 

[Theblueview]

They aren’t interlinked in the way you think.
People who have the temperament to perform at the upper echelons of their discipline are *more likely* to suffer from mental health issues as they work in high pressure environments.

Your logic is floored. You are assuming that people with mental health issues are in some way weak. But mental health can be impacted by lots of different things. The loss of a parent or child, a divorce, financial issues, age etc.

Those kinds of things can affect everyone. People have different capacities for stress (I mean that in the broadest term and not just work stress). irrespective of your capacity there will be moments where you your limit and your mental health is affected.

It’s part of life, it affects EVERYONE, irrespective of what you do as a job. Irrespective of how successful they are.

Successful people are successful because they have the ability and the temperament to get there.

You don’t become a surgeon without the ability to work under pressure and the conviction to get to that level of expertise or the intelligence to absorb the level of knowledge required to cut people open. But that does not mean that a surgeon cannot have mental health issues.

I don’t think they’re weak, I believe they’re in such a high pressure environment, that they should sort it out, or step back and leave.

Sometimes people get up to certain point and they can’t take anymore, this algorithm isn’t determined by mentality, or any factors, this is out our control. In Bernards case i believe we should move him on and not deal with his issues as a player, there’s nothing I rate about him..

That might be ruthless, harsh, cutthroat whatever the phrase. Unless they’re from exceptional talent stock, I’d still suggest that all players with these issues, who’s performance is being effected, we should throw on the scrap heap and sell.

 

[everton1953]

Getting back to the football issue, he is not good enough. Take it from there.

 

[Lelouch]

mental health regarding a footballer surely affects off field activities than on, no? I feel like when you're doing an activity for 90 minutes it goes to the back of your mind with no thoughts to it.
Maybe just me though, I feel a lot better when I'm busy or keeping myself occupied.

 

[roydo]

mental health regarding a footballer surely affects off field activities than on, no? I feel like when you're doing an activity for 90 minutes it goes to the back of your mind with no thoughts to it.
Maybe just me though, I feel a lot better when I'm busy or keeping myself occupied.

Plenty of elite level sportsmen and women will agree.

 

[Theblueview]

Have you ever seen the last dance.
Jordan, pippen and rodman all talk about their mental health issues during that documentary.
they were responsible for one of the most successful franchises in sporting history.
And Jordan is arguably the greatest sportsman of all time.

Once again, he didn’t let it effect his performance, so in a way he dealt with it, he didn’t deal with it in the normal social way. But from a sporting perspective he dealt with it.
The original poster wanted us to give Bernard another go, because of his mental health issue. I’m arguing that he should leave Everton and maybe European football, if he's struggling. This would be far kinder than keeping him under pressure for another year.