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2019/20 Carlo Ancelotti

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Zatara said:
Ancelotti is on record not only with us but over his career saying he wants to have a long term project to build a side.

If we back him as best we can and he can improve the side each window then he'll stay and probably even extend his contract.

Remember as well that Ancelotti was a midfielder. Hes done really well with Holgate, DCL, Richarlison, Digne, Gordon and possibly Kean. Not one midfielder as yet.

I expect he'll be rapidly able to change the team over this and next summer to something competitive towards the top.

Im not expecting too much this coming season.
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Now there's a plan. . . . . I wonder what size boots he takes?
 
Zatara said:
Ancelotti is on record not only with us but over his career saying he wants to have a long term project to build a side.

If we back him as best we can and he can improve the side each window then he'll stay and probably even extend his contract.

Remember as well that Ancelotti was a midfielder. Hes done really well with Holgate, DCL, Richarlison, Digne, Gordon and possibly Kean. Not one midfielder as yet.

I expect he'll be rapidly able to change the team over this and next summer to something competitive towards the top.

Im not expecting too much this coming season.
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Many players managers etc have said things on record down the years. Take that with a pinch of salt. Saying the right thing at the right time is always advisable.
Things dont often run smooth and that on the record thing has little meaning.
This squad is unbalanced and lacking so many qualities to be even half decent.
He will need help. If it doesnt come then it will end in tears. Next 12 months is crucial in seeing things at least happening.
 
Zatara said:
Theres also a benefit to having 2 forwards up top.

Also i take the opposite view on centre mids in a 2. Why cant they create chances themselves?

Youre saying Vieira / Petit didnt create chances through box to box play? Id also say that 2 having 2 tackle machines in the middle doesnt necessarily limit their ability to take the ball forward (Allan) nor impact creativity from full backs or wide midfielders.

Also were 442 in defence...in posession weve tried several tweaks...the 442 has been far more effective than what weve seen previously.

We could play any formation but the problem is that the players we have simply dont have the ability to adapt.

The players need to be recycled.
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Arsenal's Invincibles was 16 years ago and things have moved on though. It is incredibly difficult for a midfield two these days though. If you come up against a 3 then they can press both your double pivot and still have a spare man backing them up. Your forwards become isolated and you end up either losing the ball or knocking it long.

Then when you look to try man orientated pressing 2 v 3 then you just get the ball passed around you. It is just like one of those passing drills in which you see the player in the middle running around in circles.

The biggest indictment of Ancelotti is that managers have taken over his teams and done a better job. Even look at Napoli. Carlo's first 15 games of the season with a 4-4-2 produced 21 points. Gattuso who is a managerial pup switched back to 4-3-3 and his final 15 games produced 32 points. He also won the Coppa Italia beating Lazio, Inter and Juve.
 
gwladysnight said:
Arsenal's Invincibles was 16 years ago and things have moved on though. It is incredibly difficult for a midfield two these days though. If you come up against a 3 then they can press both your double pivot and still have a spare man backing them up. Your forwards become isolated and you end up either losing the ball or knocking it long.

Then when you look to try man orientated pressing 2 v 3 then you just get the ball passed around you. It is just like one of those passing drills in which you see the player in the middle running around in circles.

The biggest indictment of Ancelotti is that managers have taken over his teams and done a better job. Even look at Napoli. Carlo's first 15 games of the season with a 4-4-2 produced 21 points. Gattuso who is a managerial pup switched back to 4-3-3 and his final 15 games produced 32 points. He also won the Coppa Italia beating Lazio, Inter and Juve.
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You can make arguments about 2v3 till the cows come home but 3v3 we are outplayed anyway.

You could also say that Ancelotti adjusted the team (which had won nothing) and the players werent able to adapt and so Gattuso had no option but to switch back.

Theres more than 1 way to look at these scenarios.
 

Zatara said:
You can make arguments about 2v3 till the cows come home but 3v3 we are outplayed anyway.

You could also say that Ancelotti adjusted the team (which had won nothing) and the players werent able to adapt and so Gattuso had no option but to switch back.

Theres more than 1 way to look at these scenarios.
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Gattuso has outperformed Ancelotti at Napoli, Heycknes outperformed Carlo at Bayern and Zidane outperformed Carlo at Madrid there is a trend there.

Is it the players failing to adapt to Carlo's tactics or is it just that those tactics are now outdated.
 
Just because 442 isn't fashionable doesn't mean it is outdated. Like any tactic, it works better with the correct personnel. The problem is midfielders can only seem to do one job or the other these days, DM or AM whereas they used to be able to do both jobs or teams had players who complimented each other. I think saying a tactic is out of date is a bit ridiculous. I mean doesn't Simeone play 442?
 
gwladysnight said:
Gattuso has outperformed Ancelotti at Napoli, Heycknes outperformed Carlo at Bayern and Zidane outperformed Carlo at Madrid there is a trend there.

Is it the players failing to adapt to Carlo's tactics or is it just that those tactics are now outdated.
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Terrarian said:
Just because 442 isn't fashionable doesn't mean it is outdated. Like any tactic, it works better with the correct personnel. The problem is midfielders can only seem to do one job or the other these days, DM or AM whereas they used to be able to do both jobs or teams had players who complimented each other. I think saying a tactic is out of date is a bit ridiculous. I mean doesn't Simeone play 442?
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Agree with @Terrarian on this.

The players we have cant do more than one thing and they cant even do that well.

There are some midfielders who can pass / tackle / run etc but i think because weve played 3 in midfield weve gone for 'specialists' rather than good all rounders.

Id say playing in a 2 you have to be a strong all round player...

In any case we could play any formation and wed still be using a poor midfield and why play 3 donkeys when you can use 2?



@gwladysnight

Napoli : You missed the part about Gattusso just reverting back to their original formation. Hes not done anything brilliant simply reverted back to what the players were used to. Ancelotti tried to evolve the side and the owner caused a huge rift.

Bayern: Clearly Heynckes was always a fantastic option for Bayern...you cant really compare him to anyone. Ancelottis face didnt fit there thats for sure and the german mentality didnt seem to suit his style.

Zidane: How to compare the two?
 
@gwladysnight

Napoli : You missed the part about Gattusso just reverting back to their original formation. Hes not done anything brilliant simply reverted back to what the players were used to. Ancelotti tried to evolve the side and the owner caused a huge rift.

Bayern: Clearly Heynckes was always a fantastic option for Bayern...you cant really compare him to anyone. Ancelottis face didnt fit there thats for sure and the german mentality didnt seem to suit his style.

Zidane: How to compare the two?
[/QUOTE]

Why would Carlo try and evolve a Napoli side that had just finished the season with 91 points under Sarri. Since 13/14 when he won the Champions League with an exceptional Madrid side Carlo has tried to evolve each side in to a 4-4-2, failed and been sacked.

The philosophy of the game has changed. We are currently going through a phase in which it is all about keeping possession, playing out from the back when you have the ball and looking to play through teams. When you don't have possession you press, look to win the ball in advanced areas and attack before your opponents recover.

To do that you need a midfield 3 and you have to have extremely fit well drilled players. One of the first things Gattuso did was to drop Allan because he wasn't training well and return to a three.

Carlo has been looking to play a slow central pairing and wants to sign Allan. The most disappointing thing for me is how the intensity has dropped off since Carlo replaced big Dunc.
 
gwladysnight said:
@gwladysnight

Napoli : You missed the part about Gattusso just reverting back to their original formation. Hes not done anything brilliant simply reverted back to what the players were used to. Ancelotti tried to evolve the side and the owner caused a huge rift.

Bayern: Clearly Heynckes was always a fantastic option for Bayern...you cant really compare him to anyone. Ancelottis face didnt fit there thats for sure and the german mentality didnt seem to suit his style.

Zidane: How to compare the two?
Click to expand...

Why would Carlo try and evolve a Napoli side that had just finished the season with 91 points under Sarri. Since 13/14 when he won the Champions League with an exceptional Madrid side Carlo has tried to evolve each side in to a 4-4-2, failed and been sacked.

The philosophy of the game has changed. We are currently going through a phase in which it is all about keeping possession, playing out from the back when you have the ball and looking to play through teams. When you don't have possession you press, look to win the ball in advanced areas and attack before your opponents recover.

To do that you need a midfield 3 and you have to have extremely fit well drilled players. One of the first things Gattuso did was to drop Allan because he wasn't training well and return to a three.

Carlo has been looking to play a slow central pairing and wants to sign Allan. The most disappointing thing for me is how the intensity has dropped off since Carlo replaced big Dunc.
[/QUOTE]
So we’re doomed then. With an over the hill manager just here on his reputation to collect his money and sully his reputation. How depressing. Everton that. May as well close us down.
 


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