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2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

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You didn't say last season in your original post though. You said that we'd suffered more embarrassing home results under Carlo then we had under Sliva, Koeman and BFS. You where wrong.
1) didn't say results, I said performances
2) didn't mention seasons, meant in general


From my list there I make that 9 home performances in little over 1 year were I think we have been horrid, now let's get it right here if we played like we did in the majority of them games under say fat Sam or koeman the manager would have got absolutely slaughtered at the end of it, why is ancelotti immune from any sort of criticism?

Is he to blame? Of course it's not just him, but how are we having the same conversation after nearly every home game?
 
People will have to be patient. It's as simple as that. A cold analysis shows we had more points after 27 games than any season bar 2013/14 - and have outperformed the last three seasons by about 10 points. We've won a derby, beaten Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea, and Leicester, made the cup quarters, and stunk the place out at home. Clearly, there is work to be done - but progress is undeniable.

The truth is we will not progress with many of the players currently at the club. Some Evertonians seem remarkably critical of the manager who has won absolutely everything while simultaneously imagining that Andre Gomes, Tom Davies, Alex Iwobi, and other consistent failures have a place in the future. In reality, if Carlo is to fail here, he will fail on his terms (by buying his own players and underachieving) or he will be allowed to fail by an executive that does not back him and will, therefore, be brought down by players who are demonstrably not good enough. Failure is guaranteed by the latter. We have an obligation to give him the tools that he needs to do his job successfully.

If he signs three or four new players in the summer and we are losing to Burnley, Newcastle, and Fulham this time next year, then he'll have nowhere to hide. But I think that highly unlikely. What I do know is that if he doesn't significantly strengthen in the summer, the evidence suggests the likes of Davies, Iwobi, and Gomes will do as they have always done: flatter to deceive.

That said, if Carlo, for whatever reason, puts too much trust in these players and fails to ruthlessly deal with them this summer, then he deserves the inevitable reputational damage that will ensue - because they will forever hole him under the bow. I expect a cull this summer. If we don't see that - and the arrival of clearly superior players - then we'll all be on the slippery slope that only ever ends with bloodletting and sackings.
The profile of player we’ve signed doesn’t lend itself to this though. You can’t sign a load of 29 year olds and say give it 3/4 years to come good. We’ve quite clearly recruited with short term gains in mind, and currently it doesn’t look like it’s going to pay off.
 
Personally do feel that were more reserved away than we are at home.

The problem with our squad (threadbare as it is) being more adventurous at home is that it's not good enough.

All those games mentioned, the team has been more of a front foot as we're at home.

They no doubt don't capitalise on any good play, then are sucker punched - Leeds, West Ham, Newcastle, Burnley. Or are completely outplayed - Fulham, Leicester.

You can have off days at home (some of the results have been) but the others is purely down to not having a team that is good enough to be a dominant side at home.
Agree to an extent mate but you can't tell me we don't have a good enough squad to dominate some of the teams on that list?
 
The profile of player we’ve signed doesn’t lend itself to this though. You can’t sign a load of 29 year olds and say give it 3/4 years to come good. We’ve quite clearly recruited with short term gains in mind, and currently it doesn’t look like it’s going to pay off.
We haven't recruited enough of them - and the ones we did have played together on the pitch only intermittently.

Last night we played without Doucoure and James and played with a recuperating, rusty Allan. We hired those three players because our midfield was Vietnam. Last night, we effectively played without the improvement those transfers were supposed to bring. It really isn't that much of a surprise that we lost at home to Burnley with a side similar to the one that lost at home to Bournemouth on the last day of last season. The players we had were not good enough. The players we bought improved us hugely - but they need to be on the pitch. We have no depth. We need a serious summer. There are too many who are just not up to it.
 
We haven't recruited enough of them - and the ones we did have played together on the pitch only intermittently.

Last night we played without Doucoure and James and played with a recuperating, rusty Allan. We hired those three players because our midfield was Vietnam. Last night, we effectively played without the improvement those transfers were supposed to bring. It really isn't that much of a surprise that we lost at home to Burnley with a side similar to the one that lost at home to Bournemouth on the last day of last season. The players we had were not good enough. The players we bough improved us hugely - but they need to be on the pitch. We have no depth. We need a serious summer.
Mate Burnley had cms of Westwood and brownhill, two of the very worst CMS in the whole league, there is no excuses
 

Mate Burnley had cms of Westwood and brownhill, two of the very worst CMS in the whole league, there is no excuses
I am not excusing anybody. People need to realise our midfield is, by and large, NOT significantly better than Burnleys! This is the entire point. Tom Davies IS a Burnley player. It's a coin toss on who wins when the likes of Davies, Iwobi, and Gomes face pretty much any side in the league. We need better players. But we win a few games and Evertonians get romantic about players who have failed them time and time again.
 
I am not excusing anybody. People need to realise our midfield is, by and large, NOT significantly better than Burnleys! This is the entire point. Tom Davies IS a Burnley player. It's a coin toss on who wins when the likes of Davies, Iwobi, and Gomes face pretty much any side in the league. We need better players. But we win a few games and Evertonians get romantic about players who have failed them time and time again.

Its true that actually

However much we like Davies, Iwobi and Gomes, to be honest, they would not be first XI players at any of the CL clubs or Leicester, Wolves, Spurs or Arsenal.
 
We haven't recruited enough of them - and the ones we did have played together on the pitch only intermittently.

Last night we played without Doucoure and James and played with a recuperating, rusty Allan. We hired those three players because our midfield was Vietnam. Last night, we effectively played without the improvement those transfers were supposed to bring. It really isn't that much of a surprise that we lost at home to Burnley with a side similar to the one that lost at home to Bournemouth on the last day of last season. The players we had were not good enough. The players we bough improved us hugely - but they need to be on the pitch. We have no depth. We need a serious summer.
Firstly why is Allan recuperating and rusty? Where has this suggestion that you need to have been back playing for 6 months after every injury before people can expect you to be at a decent level come from? He’s been back in full training for over a month, he’d played 2 1/2 games before yesterday. I’d genuinely never heard this excuse before this season but it’s been rife all year. Also part of signing players with their profile is accepting that they’ll get more injuries.

We can’t just buy a whole new team, nobody can. You mentioned 3/4 players signing but that would still leave sigurdsson, iwobi, holgate, Gomes, Davies etc playing a significant amount of games unless you’re very lucky. The squad isn’t great but I just don’t accept that it’s not capable of competing in games with Burnley, Newcastle, Fulham etc. And let’s be clear, we haven’t been competitive in those games. We’ve not just lost we’ve been thoroughly outplayed.
 
I am not excusing anybody. People need to realise our midfield is, by and large, NOT significantly better than Burnleys! This is the entire point. Tom Davies IS a Burnley player. It's a coin toss on who wins when the likes of Davies, Iwobi, and Gomes face pretty much any side in the league. We need better players. But we win a few games and Evertonians get romantic about players who have failed them time and time again.

This every day of the week. Davies Siggurdson Gomes Coleman, one good game from any of the and people forget they haven’t been failing us season after season. Just nowhere near good enough.
 
I am not excusing anybody. People need to realise our midfield is, by and large, NOT significantly better than Burnleys! This is the entire point. Tom Davies IS a Burnley player. It's a coin toss on who wins when the likes of Davies, Iwobi, and Gomes face pretty much any side in the league. We need better players. But we win a few games and Evertonians get romantic about players who have failed them time and time again.
Thing is, it kind of this though. I agree about players having a few good games and fans going over the top about it ( Davies had about 3 good games and people were bumming his head off )

But our midfield last night consisted off allan gomes iwobi and Davies, 3 of that 4 where big money signings, players who have spent the vast majority of there Career at top teams playing in europe, the Burnley midfield is awful ( McNeil is good like ) but Id never even heard of that brow hill until I seem them a few weeks ago. They just wanted it more.

If our team put in the same effort as Burnley did we beat them comfortably
 

Its true that actually

However much we like Davies, Iwobi and Gomes, to be honest, they would not be first XI players at any of the CL clubs or Leicester, Wolves, Spurs or Arsenal.

I would love to have poached one of Tielemans, Ruben Neves - or that quality - actually can't think of who I'd like from Arsenal or Spurs, maybe Partey...

In short, we need a top midfielder, wide attacker and right back - (still, 18 months after we needed them )
 
Agree to an extent mate but you can't tell me we don't have a good enough squad to dominate some of the teams on that list?

Not really IMO. We should in terms of on paper, but reality is different.

Statistically we have dominated possession at 60% against West Ham, Burnley, Newcastle. We just have never capitalised or done anything and been wide open. Leeds and Fulham we were out paced everywhere so conceded possession (generally split) and lost.

I've always said, we're a side where if 1 player has an off day, the team suffers. We don't have enough quality to carry players. When that happens, a cog stops working as a collective.
 
Firstly why is Allan recuperating and rusty? Where has this suggestion that you need to have been back playing for 6 months after every injury before people can expect you to be at a decent level come from? He’s been back in full training for over a month, he’d played 2 1/2 games before yesterday. I’d genuinely never heard this excuse before this season but it’s been rife all year. Also part of signing players with their profile is accepting that they’ll get more injuries.

We can’t just buy a whole new team, nobody can. You mentioned 3/4 players signing but that would still leave sigurdsson, iwobi, holgate, Gomes, Davies etc playing a significant amount of games unless you’re very lucky. The squad isn’t great but I just don’t accept that it’s not capable of competing in games with Burnley, Newcastle, Fulham etc. And let’s be clear, we haven’t been competitive in those games. We’ve not just lost we’ve been thoroughly outplayed.
Allan has been out much of the season. It's arguable he still isn't fit. We don't need to be sports scientists to see that. For me, he has been the poorest of our four acquisitions this season as he just hasn't been available for any consistent run of games.

No, we can't just buy a whole new team - but the bitter truth is we won't be making the top four without buying at least half a new team. Buy three or four more this summer and you depend less on the proven failures who populate the majority of our current squad.

As long as the manager must field a side that regularly consists of Davies, Iwobi, and Gomes, not to mention some of our other one in threes, we will often come a cropper against the likes of Burnley or Fulham - because that is their level. Carlo has shown he is capable of beating the best sides in the league when he's got options. So the club has a decision to make: back the proven winner or continue with the proven failures. It's that simple.
 
I'm not expecting some free flowing tiki taka tik tok football here, I've watched West Brom, Southampton and Burnley all play much better football than us in 90 minutes, While we did beat two of them it's just poor that we're being outshot outplayed out passed out energized by these teams who have bang average players at best and this is the annoying part for me. Ancelotti has been here long enough to introduce some sort of system or way of playing and he simply hasn't.

We know the squad is rubbish but how can we build on something with no way of playing, Also having a style of play means you can buy certain players to improve that system and build upon it and it simply doesn't exist at this club.

Its a cardinal sin to blame Carlo on this forum.

Inspite of questions about players' mentality , the underlying question is 'Should Carlo be doing better than he is?' And the answer should be "Yes".

Those in favour of his approach make it sound as if we have championship 11 and every team is PL level top 6 hence its OK for Carlo to get away with anything. There seems to be no training ground output on the field either.

A couple of fluke wins vs Southampton and WBA mean we're 6th but we deserve absoluteky F-all this season with how we have been playing. 8th is what our calibre is.

And I am absolutely certain things won't simply change next season, which is the assumption. 70% of the squad will still be the same. Lets see how much longer people blindly support whatever Carlo does.

As far as I am concerned, Brands needs to be jailed and Carlo can do one if he still wants to hide behind the excuse that players are not good enough.

Give this team to Rogers, Pochettino and see what they do with improving the confidence.
 

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