2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[Jacko93]

I never said ancelotti is a bad manager and I also said I'm happy to keep him and proud of that he has broken ducks away to some supposedly cursed away grounds albeit in front of no fans which has made a huge difference. (Also consider Fulham and others breaking long ducks away to us clearly because of no fans).

I just felt moyes was perfect to come in and finish the job he started with us. The ceiling debate about Moyes is an unwarranted one. How could he have gone further with us when he constantly lost star players year on year to the likes of man City etc. If he was at ours now he would have had the luxury of not having to sell and who would have known how far that would have taken us.

Anyway Moyes seems a taboo subject and I apologise for ruffling feathers, I'm a fan and clearly in the minority.

Its not about ruffling feathers. You stated that Moyes is Simply a better manager than Carlo Ancelotti. You added to that, that you cannot judge Moyes on his utter failings after leaving us (after winning nothing) because he never had a lot of time and after nearly one season has done OK at West Ham, yet you can judge Ancelotti after winning everything there is in European club football before him coming here, without him completing a full season as of yet.

That's not ruffling feathers, that's flying over the cuckoos nest in a fighter jet.

 

[navidson]

Let’s debate after Carlo has had 10 years at it

Of course - but right here, right now with the current squad/financial limitations/playing style of the Premier League it's an interesting debate

 

[trueblue84]

Wouldnt say Moist is a better manager but he's a better fit for a club like ours than Carlo is.

Its going to take a culture shift / Carlo to change how he handles this squad before we realistically have chance of success.

Big pressure on everyone at the club next season you feel from Brands to Ancelotti.

But our culture under Moyes was "nearly men" who where never really going to threaten the big six long term.

You've already said ancelotti will need to change the club's culture before we see success, so why would you go back to someone who was a perfect fit for a club who's culture was happy to win eff all?

 

[sageyefc]

Of course - but right here, right now with the current squad/financial limitations/playing style of the Premier League it's an interesting debate

Depends how you look at it, statistically he is doing a better job because he’s got a better win %, also if you compared Carlos first 18 months with moyes first 18 months Carlos has been without doubt better. But moyes team at its peak bullies this current team with ease but then Ancelotti hasnt had several years to build his team like moyes did

 

[navidson]

Depends how you look at it, statistically he is doing a better job because he’s got a better win %, also if you compared Carlos first 18 months with moyes first 18 months Carlos has been without doubt better. But moyes team at its peak bullies this current team with ease but then Ancelotti hasnt had several years to build his team like moyes did

Is it Carlo's team to build though?

I thought we hired a Director of Football to establish a playing style/club identity regardless of current manager?

 

[Bluestar]

But our culture under Moyes was "nearly men" who where never really going to threaten the big six long term.

You've already said ancelotti will need to change the club's culture before we see success, so why would you go back to someone who was a perfect fit for a club who's culture was happy to win eff all?

We were always skint under Moyes.

He had to beg borrow and steal, but we still managed to get Arteta, Baines, Jagielka, Pienar etc. We developed them into really good players.

Carlo is starting from a different place and has different expectations on his shoulders. He has bigger budgets and his own charisma is a greater draw. The football right now it turgid, but with time I expect it to become much more fluid and easier on the eye.

 

[blueblue]

The season at United alone falsifies any validity your argument might have.

What Moyes does well works faster, but it has a lower ceiling. It's worth noting that he's taken just as many points off of the horsepunchers as we have this season.

Moyes has two more wins and hasn't been managing a M*A*S*H unit. Let's see what happens with a more normal run of injury luck for both clubs before jumping to any conclusions.

The most influential player West Ham have is on loan and almost certainly won't be staying.

In January when Lingard was suggested on here(not by me) there was almost universal derision.

I wonder what the reaction would be now if he joined us?

 

[blueblue]

We were always skint under Moyes.

He had to beg borrow and steal, but we still managed to get Arteta, Baines, Jagielka, Pienar etc. We developed them into really good players.

Carlo is starting from a different place and has different expectations on his shoulders. He has bigger budgets and his own charisma is a greater draw. The football right now it turgid, but with time I expect it to become much more fluid and easier on the eye.

Moyes did better when he didn't have money to spend.

 

[sageyefc]

Is it Carlo's team to build though?

I thought we hired a Director of Football to establish a playing style/club identity regardless of current manager?

I’d hope carlo gets a say, so far all brands has done is give us the identity and style of a gang of slow dossers that can’t kick a ball

 

[Bluestar]

Moyes did better when he didn't have money to spend.

That’s true.
Without a doubt he was great at talent spitting. He brought some great players in for low fees.
His higher value players were more hit and miss.

 

[RomanReigns]

That’s true.
Without a doubt he was great at talent spitting. He brought some great players in for low fees.
His higher value players were more hit and miss.

Still doing it now

Dawson
Soucek
Coufal
Lingard
Benrahma

All excellent signings

 

[OnlyTheBestIsGoodEnough]

David moyes simply is a better manager than carlo ancelotti in my opinion. I couldn't care less about trophies, something severely lacking by a lot of people is something called perspective. David moyes when at Everton did an unbelievable job, the kind of which hasn't been repeated by 4 or 5 managers since all with a bigger budget.

Carlo is by no means a mug and has done a very good job at most places in his career. But the perspective is that David moves at Everton on his budget was realistically competing with 14 teams to get that 5th place, the 4 above at the time were on a different planet with their budget so couldn't realistically be expected to be caught. David regularly achieved 5th and 6th places finishes. The idea that he's now doing the same at West ham is no fluke, it is further proof of his managerial ability.

The other jobs he had since leaving Everton can not be measured fairly as he simply didn't have any time to stamp his identity on those clubs.

I look at West ham now and see everything I grew up seeing watching Everton under Moyes. Their fans must be so proud of their performances and so confident that they can get a result anywhere. Everton as a comparison are the opposite. We just look terrible and one dimensional.

I will stick by Carlo for the mere fact that we have no other option at this time and it would cost too much to replace him. But I was calling for Moyes before we got Carlo and even started a thread and it got taken down. This kind of proudness from some people calling Moyes a traitor and the like is exactly the reason why we keep finding ourselves in these predicaments.

Its not all been negatives with Carlo but I dare say had we got Moyes instead we would be much much further in our progression towards the top than we are now.

Vs Top Six this Season

David Moyes - 5 points
Carlo Ancelotti - 18 points

This is why we will achieve more with Carlo in charge than when Moyes managed us because he can win us the big games so we can challenge up the top and with the chance to sign some better quailty players in the summer I have every confidence we will achieve this

 

[APN_EFC]

Wouldnt say Moist is a better manager but he's a better fit for a club like ours than Carlo is.

Its going to take a culture shift / Carlo to change how he handles this squad before we realistically have chance of success.

Big pressure on everyone at the club next season you feel from Brands to Ancelotti.

He's a better fit if we want to always comfortably be top 10 and...well if we want a repeat of his first spell with us, and occassionally get to a final and top 6 then yes it will work well. But even though he's older, I still have more faith in Ancelotti adapting and developing, than Moyes, and for working with some stars, adapting and fitting them into Everton. It's easy to get sentimental about Martinez's first year, and Moyes' best squad (Arteta-Cahill etc) but it's hard to repeat because there were some things that also were lucky - i.e. Baines, Coleman, Arteta, Cahill in their prime, a solid back 3 (Howard, Yobo, Jags, Distin, Lescott etc)...we just had good recruitment and a good spirit, which I think we can get soon. I agree - big pressure and a culture shift required.

 

[JMT]

Everton fans began pining for David Moyes back with Carlo Ancelotti as manager.

 

[blueblue]

Still doing it now

Dawson
Soucek
Coufal
Lingard
Benrahma

All excellent signings

Lingard is a loan, but a very good signing.

I can't help but feel that David Moyes is doing with West Ham what he did with Everton.
Build a team that battles for top six but never good enough for top four.