2020/21 Carlo Ancelotti

[TimHowardsBeardJuice]

He has improved of late but not enough to warrant the fee we paid. Could be a decent squad player if we do make Europe,but Brands needs to have a good hard look at himself over that transfer.

the fee is a sunk cost.

a somewhat useful squad player on a big fee is a lot better then a total bust on a big fee and he was looking like that only two months ago.

fwiw we missed his posivity against WH, the game was crying out for someone to just take the ball and get forward

 

[davids]

the fee is a sunk cost.

a somewhat useful squad player on a big fee is a lot better then a total bust on a big fee and he was looking like that only two months ago.

fwiw we missed his posivity against WH, the game was crying out for someone to just take the ball and get forward

Funny how a couple of half decent games changes perception. Before Fulham he was picking up the ball and running down dead ends.

 

[RaleighBlue]

Does finishing 6th really build that culture though? I agree with you but I just think you've got to actually be winning things to build it. I mean Spurs still don't really have that culture as an example.

I don't know both are important for sure so you don't really want to sacrifice one for the other so much. It's certainly hard.

I think in our case it does. We've been an absolute basket-case club for 5+ years now...you really could make the case for 'post-Moyes' regardless of the Martinez good season. Players like Tom Davies and DCL really don't have experience putting together a run of games and going out to win at all costs right now. Spurs have a better culture for it than we do, at least. They haven't been finishing bottom half for the past few years, nor flirting with relegation form.

I suspect some of it has to do with the idea of playing a system. Martinez and Silva, at least were managers that prized the system over results. They felt their system was the 'right' way to play football to victory, and if we were "playing the right way" that things would come good.

I disagree with that concept, and I think Ancelotti does too, hence "football is a simple game". The training field is for systems and learning. The match is for playing to win and upping the intensity.

I don't think we need to play a "2020 winning" system to simply help stop the rot and reverse the course that we've been on for closing in on a decade. The step between basket case club and stable club often does depend on defense and going out and sneaking a few wins to build confidence. The attacking flair gets added later.

We've had 4 win runs *twice* this season. Maybe it's a fluke, but it's one I haven't seen since I've been watching Everton. Our culture and mentality are not going to be fixed overnight though, there are a lot of stages to go between where Martinez/Koeman/Allardyce/Silva had us and playing like City in their pomp.

 

[catcherintherye]

Does finishing 6th really build that culture though? I agree with you but I just think you've got to actually be winning things to build it. I mean Spurs still don't really have that culture as an example.

I don't know both are important for sure so you don't really want to sacrifice one for the other so much. It's certainly hard.

Spurs culture and expectations, and how they view themselves is miles ahead of ours though mate. They sacked a manager who earlier that year got them to a Champions League final.

 

[TheBigIguana]

I think in our case it does. We've been an absolute basket-case club for 5+ years now...you really could make the case for 'post-Moyes' regardless of the Martinez good season. Players like Tom Davies and DCL really don't have experience putting together a run of games and going out to win at all costs right now. Spurs have a better culture for it than we do, at least. They haven't been finishing bottom half for the past few years, nor flirting with relegation form.

I suspect some of it has to do with the idea of playing a system. Martinez and Silva, at least were managers that prized the system over results. They felt their system was the 'right' way to play football to victory, and if we were "playing the right way" that things would come good.

I disagree with that concept, and I think Ancelotti does too, hence "football is a simple game". The training field is for systems and learning. The match is for playing to win and upping the intensity.

I don't think we need to play a "2020 winning" system to simply help stop the rot and reverse the course that we've been on for closing in on a decade. The step between basket case club and stable club often does depend on defense and going out and sneaking a few wins to build confidence. The attacking flair gets added later.

We've had 4 win runs *twice* this season. Maybe it's a fluke, but it's one I haven't seen since I've been watching Everton. Our culture and mentality are not going to be fixed overnight though, there are a lot of stages to go between where Martinez/Koeman/Allardyce/Silva had us and playing like City in their pomp.

I don't agree with that on Silva at all. He came in talking about how he liked 4-3-3 and never played it a single time here.

I think a lot of our lower finishes have nothing to do with mentality as much as they have to do with skill level both from the players and management.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Spurs culture and expectations, and how they view themselves is miles ahead of ours though mate. They sacked a manager who earlier that year got them to a Champions League final.

If we're doing the "you have to have a winning culture" thing than I think the Spurs CL final is a poor example of their development of said culture. They no showed it.

 

[catcherintherye]

If we're doing the "you have to have a winning culture" thing than I think the Spurs CL final is a poor example of their development of said culture. They no showed it.

They are a better example than what we have.

 

[Egil Olsen]

Talking about culture mystifies the whole process. First and foremost, we need good players. Call them world class players. Then we need the best coaches, sports physiologists, data analysts, etc. Of course, we need good training facilities. We need a manager who has an idea of how he wants the team to play, and who is respected among the players. Finally, the owners and the board must not be afraid to fire the manager if the results are not forthcoming. The only way to be among the best is to be among the clubs that have the most money and hire the best people.

 

[TheBigIguana]

They are a better example than what we have.

I'm not saying they aren't. What I am saying is that they've done a lot of winning and they aren't all the way there so do we really expect to get there in a season where we finish 5th or whatever?

I'd rather see us get into a system and develop it as we can do that wherever we finish.

 

[Furey1878]

Salah was cheaper wasn't he?

Tbf, he should have cost more than 30 mil but there was like some jarg contract thing that got Liverpool a cut price deal

Though if you really wanna hate life today recall that Berto M had a chance to sign Salah (can't remember if it was loan or perm but based on Lukaku who knows what would have happened) from Chelsea and VVD from Celtic and we ended up with Lennon/Deulofeu and Funes Mori.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm not saying they aren't. What I am saying is that they've done a lot of winning and they aren't all the way there so do we really expect to get there in a season where we finish 5th or whatever?

I'd rather see us get into a system and develop it as we can do that wherever we finish.

Has that not been tried, and ultimately failed?

 

[TheBigIguana]

Has that not been tried, and ultimately failed?

No? We've never really committed to playing a system that wasn't an ill-conceived 4-2-3-1 that used a player who was a bad #10 in the very important #10 role. We often abandoned that at the first sign of trouble too.

And as much as James could fill that role now in a way that Barkley and Sigurdsson did not I'd prefer Carlo commit to developing our play in the 4-3-3 that he started the season in over chasing results. That way of playing with small tweaks and improvements in key areas (like having a true #6) had potential.

Ultimately we can take two views here. One is that we're good enough to make CL this year. If that's the case grinding results out against top teams is fine but we need to play better against teams we're better than and quickly or we have no chance of keeping pace.

The other is we aren't good enough. If that's the case there is no point in grinding out results. Learn to play a system that will be competitive when we have the players to be good enough.

 

[RaleighBlue]

No? We've never really committed to playing a system that wasn't an ill-conceived 4-2-3-1 that used a player who was a bad #10 in the very important #10 role. We often abandoned that at the first sign of trouble too.

And as much as James could fill that role now in a way that Barkley and Sigurdsson did not I'd prefer Carlo commit to developing our play in the 4-3-3 that he started the season in over chasing results. That way of playing with small tweaks and improvements in key areas (like having a true #6) had potential.

Ultimately we can take two views here. One is that we're good enough to make CL this year. If that's the case grinding results out against top teams is fine but we need to play better against teams we're better than and quickly or we have no chance of keeping pace.

The other is we aren't good enough. If that's the case there is no point in grinding out results. Learn to play a system that will be competitive when we have the players to be good enough.

Why do the players we have now need to learn to play a system that they'll be turfed out of at our first opportunity?

Does DCL really learn how to play that system if his service is coming from Iwobi, Bernard, and Sigurdsson - all of whom would go away in the ideal world?

What benefit does this offer those players (the ones that know they're just there until we can buy better players, since we're not even trying to win) to go out and try and do their best?

Also, I'm not so sure I'm onboard with the idea that picking the right "system" without the players for it is ever a great idea. Play the system that works for the players you have.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Why do the players we have now need to learn to play a system that they'll be turfed out of at our first opportunity?

Does DCL really learn how to play that system if his service is coming from Iwobi, Bernard, and Sigurdsson - all of whom would go away in the ideal world?

What benefit does this offer those players (the ones that know they're just there until we can buy better players, since we're not even trying to win) to go out and try and do their best?

Also, I'm not so sure I'm onboard with the idea that picking the right "system" without the players for it is ever a great idea. Play the system that works for the players you have.

We aren't going to be able to turn over the entire squad in a single season. Odds are at least 6 or 7 of the 11 players who start the most games this year will also be starting a lot of games next year. And a lot of the guys who aren't starting anymore, someone like Iwobi for example, figure to still be a part of the team. So you can start building the continuity now. I think it is also helpful for bedding in new players and even recruiting the right players if you know what the role is that you need them to perform.

The problem I have with play the system that fits the players is it creates a messy recruiting process. If I know what my system is and what for example the defensive midfielder in my system is going to be asked to do I can recruit the right guy much easier than if I'm just looking for a defensive midfielder and then plan to figure it out once he is here.

I just really rate continuity and having a plan and to me changing the system every couple months is neither and longer term is damaging to a club's prospects. Which is why I say if we think we can make CL go for it. But if not we shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Baines' left foot]

blah, blah, blah, someone tells you how it is and they are a kopite, the fact is no other manager would get away with the rancid, turgid football Ancelotti has served up, anyone who says they have enjoyed watching it is a liar, now he's talking about signing Khedira, giving Siguurdson a new contract and persists with the has been that is Seamus Coleman, but hey we are fourth, lets see how opinions change as the inevitable slide down the table snowballs.

You really should go and support someone else if you don’t get any joy from Everton this season. I know some people have unrealistically high expectations, but this is truly pathetic.

Do you really think that anyone else would do any better with this squad than Ancelotti is currently doing? You’re a complete and utter idiot.