CLUB NOTES: Man City

[Allezfan]

Nic try, but you haven't refuted my argument. For clarity, let me state unambiguously that I'm talking about winning league titles and the CL, which are the true benchmarks for the level of greatness that City, ourselves and just about every other big club aspires to. No well-managed, non-moneyed club has come within a mile of either for a long, long time and they won't any time soon for the "glass ceiling" reasons so lamented by our very own manager last summer. The only answer is the route City are taking and it is ENTIRELY JUSTIFIED given the reasoned context I gave.

By your definition of greatness and your definition of big money and your definition of a long long time, you're spot on. But your definition of success is too restrictive to be meaningful and your sample size is too small and only makes sense if you assume the current trends will continue forever.

By the same logic, I think it's impossible for a team to reach true greatnes, and by that I mean winning the european cup 6 or more times within a single generation of players, without having a player called Francisco Gento and therefore the route of forceably renaming all your players Francisco Gento is entirely justified.

 

[Allezfan]

Pathetic straw clutching. I am talking exclusively within the context of the title and the CL. Tottenham have won far more FA Cups than us, and all manner of other lesser clubs have won it too, but does that trophy make them any of them world renowned name or a great club? So for the umpteenth friggin' time, stop shifting the goalposts and try to stay on focus.

And as for regurgitating SSN, that's exactly what all the City-bashers are doing, parroting the pro Man United / Pro LFC agenda from the media.

Bottom line: for a non-elite club to win the CL or the Premiership, there is no other way than the way City are doing it because, like us, they were unable to be "first to market" when the game was blossoming into a global product.

Why should I accept the goalposts you put up?

The argument was whether it was currently possible for a team to be successful without spending huge amounts of money. At what point did I agree to abide by your definition of success rather than my own?

 

[chicoazul]

Pathetic straw clutching. I am talking exclusively within the context of the title and the CL. Tottenham have won far more FA Cups than us, and all manner of other lesser clubs have won it too, but does that trophy make them any of them world renowned name or a great club? So for the umpteenth friggin' time, stop shifting the goalposts and try to stay on focus.

And as for regurgitating SSN, that's exactly what all the City-bashers are doing, parroting the pro Man United / Pro LFC agenda from the media.

Bottom line: for a non-elite club to win the CL or the Premiership, there is no other way than the way City are doing it because, like us, they were unable to be "first to market" when the game was blossoming into a global product.

Sorry, I meant major trophies, which is what the FA Cup & League Cup are no longer.

You got them goalposts on wheels chief?

You should support Newcastle really mate, you're a perfect fit.

 

[nesky]

Why should I accept the goalposts you put up?

The argument was whether it was currently possible for a team to be successful without spending huge amounts of money. At what point did I agree to abide by your definition of success rather than my own?

No it wasn't, it was about achieving meaningful success, which to an ambitious club is a lot more than the odd FA Cup or League Cup win.

What stuns me here is how entrenched in the red-shirt-loving media position you and others on here are, when the very same points I made on another forum frequented by Kopites and Man United fans was met with considerable if reluctant agreement. And ours, after all, is a fanbase which consistently defines - in this very thread too - Everton's greatness in terms of... CHAMPIONSHIPS WON, not FA Cups, so I'm finding this persistence in contriving a moral high ground from which to snipe at City utterly reprehensible. You know every bit as well as I do that had Mansour bought Everton, we'd be spending big time too. And you'd be fighting a rearguard action against all the detractors in the media, and of course, from jealous fans of other clubs. Including Manchester City.

 

[nesky]

Oh aye. Just admit you're wrong chief, it's not too hard.

You should support Newcastle really mate, you're a perfect fit.

Not too hard? So why can't you?

 

[chicoazul]

Not too hard? So why can't you?

Because clearly Im right and you're wrong.

 

[nesky]

Because clearly Im right and you're wrong.

Remind me again, what I'm wrong about and what you're right about? This is getting to be like an argument in an old people's home.

 

[Allezfan]

No it wasn't, it was about achieving meaningful success, which to an ambitious club is a lot more than the odd FA Cup or League Cup win.

What stuns me here is how entrenched in the red-shirt-loving media position you and others on here are, when the very same points I made on another forum frequented by Kopites and Man United fans was met with considerable if reluctant agreement. And ours, after all, is a fanbase which consistently defines - in this very thread too - Everton's greatness in terms of... CHAMPIONSHIPS WON, not FA Cups, so I'm finding this persistence in contriving a moral high ground from which to snipe at City utterly reprehensible. You know every bit as well as I do that had Mansour bought Everton, we'd be spending big time too. And you'd be fighting a rearguard action against all the detractors in the media, and of course, from jealous fans of other clubs. Including Manchester City.

No need for that sort of talk, mate.

Bottom line is nobody other than Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea have won the league since Blackburn and Leeds in the early nineties. And nobody apart from the big 4 have made significent progress in the champions league snce Leeds and Newcastle about ten years back. Those are facts.

But the idea that that pattern, over a limited timescale, is the start of a long lasting trend which will mean that it is impossible in the future for a team to be massively successful without spending a huge amount. And that any success in breaking the top four and winning cups by teams outside that clique is irrevelent and doesn't hint that the stranglehold at the top isn't as complete as the media likes us to think it is. That's all opinion.

Questions of the morality of City and how we would act in that posiition are irrelivent. I think you're too pessemistic about the modern game and that a well managed team with reasonable funds can still win the league. Just cos it hasn't happened in the last fifteen years doesn't mean its impossible, thats quite a small time in football.

You disagree, fine, but theres no need to get so heated about it

 

[chicoazul]

Remind me again, what I'm wrong about and what you're right about? This is getting to be like an argument in an old people's home.

See above mate.

I'll accept your apology if you hurry up.

 

[ToffeeDan]

I can see Nesky's POV. We (mostly) detest Citteh for the manner in which they are going about their business which leaves some of their fans to pick up the flak - or hear it from various quarters. Clearly the owners and management of Citteh aren't go to answer these 'accusations' since that's their MO and they think it's working (or they wouldn't presumably do it this way). The rest of us are pretty much hacked off with their attitude and all that. Sure let them buy whoever they want but do it with a modicum of decorum.

The minute the train gets remotely delayed they are back on the market with the monopoly money enticing the greediest half-decent footballers in Europe to move to suburban Wimslow and then a new manager is in through the door building 'his' team at considerable expense.

I find the whole Citteh circus risible. I couldn't care less if they should happen to buy, sorry I mean win, the league this season or next. For me it's a Mercenaries Charter and they've bought the whole kit and caboodle.

Can I fit a few more cliches in please!!

 

[chicoazul]

Carry on Dan, we were enjoying that mate.

 

[Lao]

I love the word risible, always has me laughing.

 

[ToffeeDan]

The Dogs Bollocks.. (but only a castrated version)