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Commercial Airliners

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Two hour fly around in poor weather last Thursday afternoon going into JFK after severe rainstorm closed the airport. Must've been really bad as one of the stewardesses said we'd likely be diverting to Washington.
I was reading that the week before Delta cancelled 3,200 flights in a week due to weather conditions.

I've always been intrigued by who makes the decision to fly a commercial airliner or not in bad weather....pilot, scheduling manager, air traffic control.....? Similarly, I often wonder if we'll ever get to a stage where as a passenger we can decide not to board based on an onward weather report shown live at the airport prior to flying....I know there'd be security issues related to checked in bags etc but I think they could find a way to make it work.

@Dylan and @SerenityNigh .....great contributions in the last few pages....thanks and keep them coming.
 
evertony said:
Two hour fly around in poor weather last Thursday afternoon going into JFK after severe rainstorm closed the airport. Must've been really bad as one of the stewardesses said we'd likely be diverting to Washington.
I was reading that the week before Delta cancelled 3,200 flights in a week due to weather conditions.

I've always been intrigued by who makes the decision to fly a commercial airliner or not in bad weather....pilot, scheduling manager, air traffic control.....? Similarly, I often wonder if we'll ever get to a stage where as a passenger we can decide not to board based on an onward weather report shown live at the airport prior to flying....I know there'd be security issues related to checked in bags etc but I think they could find a way to make it work.

@Dylan and @SerenityNigh .....great contributions in the last few pages....thanks and keep them coming.
Click to expand...

Any time it is operational, from when an airplane pushes back until it lands again and comes to rest at the gate, the Pilot in Command (Captain) has complete control of the aircraft. ATC issues clearances for departure and landing and certain restricted routes, along with route guidance and other information, but otherwise is not in control of any flight. I'm less familiar with air carrier operations, but I'm sure dispatch or a chief pilot makes cancellations on a broad scale. Any PIC can decline a clearance/departure for safety reasons, but usually once an airplane departs the pilots are intent on reaching the destination. It's hard on human nature, especially pilots, to give up on the simple task of reaching a destination.

*if you look at the tapes of the Sully/Hudson landing, this is a fascinating look at pilot/aircraft/ATC interaction

**also, this is based on my FAA knowledge. ICAO or other governing bodies may have other rules.
 
SerenityNigh said:
Any time it is operational, from when an airplane pushes back until it lands again and comes to rest at the gate, the Pilot in Command (Captain) has complete control of the aircraft. ATC issues clearances for departure and landing and certain restricted routes, along with route guidance and other information, but otherwise is not in control of any flight. I'm less familiar with air carrier operations, but I'm sure dispatch or a chief pilot makes cancellations on a broad scale. Any PIC can decline a clearance/departure for safety reasons, but usually once an airplane departs the pilots are intent on reaching the destination. It's hard on human nature, especially pilots, to give up on the simple task of reaching a destination.

*if you look at the tapes of the Sully/Hudson landing, this is a fascinating look at pilot/aircraft/ATC interaction

**also, this is based on my FAA knowledge. ICAO or other governing bodies may have other rules.
Click to expand...

Cheers Serenity, great insight.
I was thinking more of when the weather is horrendous before departure...are there any guidelines? For example, if there are 60-70mph winds will an aircraft be clear to take off if the captain wants to, or does the CAA or the like have limits?
I ask based on a flight I took in January 2004 from Lyon Satolas to Schiphol on an Embraer. Every flight that night was cancelled due to extreme weather conditions all across Europe with winds up to 100mph. I'd rang home and told the Mrs I'd be delayed getting home to Manchester and she'd said she wasn't surprised as even Manchester airport had been closed all day. When KLM called the flight I was surprised and was trying to talk myself out of getting on the little 52 seater. The flight was only about 1hr 20 mins but I can recall every single minute of it even now. Fair to say it was uncomfortable. Talk about getting tossed about. It was the only flight into Schiphol as we'll a start the only one out of Lyon. I ended up stranded in Amsterdam as there were no flights out. That said, I absolutely love flying and aircraft....totally intriguing machines.
 

evertony said:
Cheers Serenity, great insight.
I was thinking more of when the weather is horrendous before departure...are there any guidelines? For example, if there are 60-70mph winds will an aircraft be clear to take off if the captain wants to, or does the CAA or the like have limits?
I ask based on a flight I took in January 2004 from Lyon Satolas to Schiphol on an Embraer. Every flight that night was cancelled due to extreme weather conditions all across Europe with winds up to 100mph. I'd rang home and told the Mrs I'd be delayed getting home to Manchester and she'd said she wasn't surprised as even Manchester airport had been closed all day. When KLM called the flight I was surprised and was trying to talk myself out of getting on the little 52 seater. The flight was only about 1hr 20 mins but I can recall every single minute of it even now. Fair to say it was uncomfortable. Talk about getting tossed about. It was the only flight into Schiphol as we'll a start the only one out of Lyon. I ended up stranded in Amsterdam as there were no flights out. That said, I absolutely love flying and aircraft....totally intriguing machines.
Click to expand...

All aircraft have operational limits, and you're only allowed to depart if you can fly the planned route and land at your destination or alternate within the aircraft's limits. I'm sure carriers have their own limits, but I'm not aware what these are.
 
slightly off topic-ish; late last night I found a Doco on the development/history of the 747, v interesting and full of 'facts' just ready for groucho's fact hunt, which I can't remember, due to the later hour I watched it on Fri night...anyway, dig it out.
 
Was on a Malaysian flight from Heathrow to Kuala Lumpar last week

Over turkey an English male passenger got very aggressive to other passengers and staff
He had to be restrained by other passengers - six big men.
Hands were taped, blanket put over his head!
He kept the whole cabin awake for almost the entire flight (9 more hours) shouting and cursing.
Police arrested him when plane landed

Made the flight horrible
 
thirdmantackle said:
Was on a Malaysian flight from Heathrow to Kuala Lumpar last week

Over turkey an English male passenger got very aggressive to other passengers and staff
He had to be restrained by other passengers - six big men.
Hands were taped, blanket put over his head!
He kept the whole cabin awake for almost the entire flight (9 more hours) shouting and cursing.
Police arrested him when plane landed

Made the flight horrible
Click to expand...
Good job there were people prepared to restrain him. Must've been a nightmare.
 

Flew into Bergamo on Tuesday and back to UK from Treviso on Wednesday. Every single time I fly over the Alps it's lumpy but Tuesday it was damn uncomfortable. Is it related to thin air or something over the Alps?
 
Some serious clear air turbulence reported today on an Aeroflot 777 between Moscow and Bangkok. Seems they hit CAT one hour before landing and ended up with 27 needing hospital treatment for fractures etc....all of whom were passengers not wearing their seat belts....and, to totally support my unerring demand to always be sat in the forward section of a flight, all were in the tail section.
I've long argued with colleagues about the increase in the effects of turbulence in the rear section of planes....I always book the furthest forward seat I can.
Sorry, not able to post a link!
 
evertony said:
Some serious clear air turbulence reported today on an Aeroflot 777 between Moscow and Bangkok. Seems they hit CAT one hour before landing and ended up with 27 needing hospital treatment for fractures etc....all of whom were passengers not wearing their seat belts....and, to totally support my unerring demand to always be sat in the forward section of a flight, all were in the tail section.
I've long argued with colleagues about the increase in the effects of turbulence in the rear section of planes....I always book the furthest forward seat I can.
Sorry, not able to post a link!
Click to expand...

All airplanes balance along a center of gravity very near the wing, so any large movement around the center of gravity will be more extreme in the very front and very rear. (Imagine an airplane like a long teeter-totter, with the wing at the fulcrum.) I'm sure there's a simple reason why this is less so in the front than back, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

You also might like this
 
SerenityNigh said:
All airplanes balance along a center of gravity very near the wing, so any large movement around the center of gravity will be more extreme in the very front and very rear. (Imagine an airplane like a long teeter-totter, with the wing at the fulcrum.) I'm sure there's a simple reason why this is less so in the front than back, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

You also might like this
Click to expand...
Cheers SN...read that, or something very similar before. Fascinating.
 

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