Conspiracy theories

[PKwalnuts]

It's looks Far-Left nowadays. Put it through the Political Compass Test.



Tho' I agree with your thinking here, considering how they attempted to destroy Corbyn (who I broadly supported, by the way). They went all-in on him supporting anti-semitism, which seemed bonkers to me. To this day I don't fully understand what went on there, why would they be against him so when they appear to support his policies?




about what exactly? The trio of the 2015/6 Migrant Crisis, Brexit & Trump certainly opened my eyes to a lot of bullshit, and generally how narratives are formed and maintained....and how those narratives main objective appears to be to create polarisation among the public.




Are you sure one side is good and the other side is bad?

Seems very simplistic.

From my perspective, this has happened (me being in the middle):

View attachment 172090


you do you.

I think this take is why I haven't been able to once agree with your perspective in any of your posts on this thread so far. The idea that only the left has moved further left and the right remained static in relation is very naiive unless you had a right leaning left bashing agenda, which I suspect you do.

 

[catcherintherye]

Let's just focus on this bit, as I can't be arsed with the rest of your frankly insane utterwrongun of a ramble.

Here are two pieces of reporting that contradict your statement, from Washington Post & Reuters so as not to upset your political-compass-radar:

More than half of identified perps were from that year' mass migrant waves, the others were asylum seekers from of previous years. "There is a connection between the emergence of these attacks and the rapid migration in 2015," Holger Münch, president of the German Federal Crime Police Office, told Sueddeutsche Zeitung.

Most of the suspects come from northern Africa - Morocco, Algeria or Tunisia.


I've been providing trusted sources to back up my statements. You provide nothing except your own words, and even within them there is no argument, only blanket - and totally untrue - statements.

It's very strange what you are doing. But i put it down to you being a useful idiot (i.e. a person perceived as propagandising for a cause without fully comprehending the cause's goals) for the intended mass polarisation that is going on.

Look mate, the last past was nasty, I tried to delete/edit it out but not sure it would let me. You brought me into it, but it doesnt need the nastiness.

I'll try and write what I should have written there (and what I tried to edit to be fair).

1) I care about mens violence against women and girls. I have my reasons for that, but it's an issue I feel strongly about. I didnt deny that assaults happened. I challenged the idea race is the key factor, when it's very clear someones sex is the clearest indicator.

2) On abortion, I support womens rights on abortion up to about 7 months. There are lots of trade offs. It's not an easy subject. I find lots of people on the "pro life" side to be hypocrites. If people dont want to have an abortion though, just dont have an abortion.

3) Some of your comments came across as a bit flippant. On reflection I'm sure you werent trying to do harm. Talking about women killing unborn children is out of line in my view.

4) I dont know what cause you think I'm propagandising for mate. If there was some great cause out there, I doubt theyd want someone like me involved. Theyd want people who can persuade people in a succinct way.

5) https://www.channel4.com/news/bon-secour-galway-catholic-church-ireland-septic-tank

That's the link for what the Church did in Ireland. I wont get too emotive, but babies in septic tanks is the pits. I refuse to be moralised to by people like them.

I want a fairer world. A world where people who get screwed over get a fairer deal. It's not straightforward, but that's it.

I hope that's clarified where I'm coming from. If you think I'm a useful idiot for some bigger cause, it's a bit of a compliment really but its really not true.

 

[dholliday]

Does the vaccine temporarily reduce sperm concentration and motility by a greater or lesser extent than the actual virus?

You tell me, jebus.

Hence why, after that wee diatribe, I believe you to spout utter bollix at every opportunity.

I demonstrated that the conservative Right, a massive chunk of the population, feel in the moral right when it comes to the contraceptive-abortion debate...as the saving of a child's life outranks the feelings of a grown woman (assuming no health/rape issues, which are the vast majority).

This appears in stark contrast to your blanket statement on the Left being the good guys and the Right being the bad guys. Which statement is therefore more bollocks?

It's all not so black 'n white. Both sides can't be right. But it seems very unlikely (and unusual, considering the complexities of human nature) for one side to be absolutely right, and the other absolutely wrong.

This polarisation programme...in keeping with the conspiracy-theme of this thread...is intentional. It's an intentional media-driven strategy to reduce people's thought-ability to basic black-n-white structures (like an Orwellian Thought Police, complete with language-control). A population with reduced thought, with a lack of nuance in their thinking, will more readily target the other (with opposing views) rather than who, or what, is driving this polarisation in the first place.

The pandemic was itself a real eye-opener...nuance was dead. Considering the perspectives of others with different views was utter taboo. The dehumanising of the unvaccinated was accepted & promoted by the same side who usually (loudly) decry such a thing...the same side who often have Pride/Ukraine/BLM flags in tribute.


Polarisation is the real enemy here. Not the Right (not the Left if you're a conservative). This polarisation is no accident.


It's a conspiracy theory now...but I have a funny feeling there's something really to it.

If you actually believe what you have written, then I hope you truly do feel comfort in the pain of others, because it appears, that's what drives you on.

So from everything I've written (and I've tried to be precise & thoughtful) your take is that I'm "driven by feeling comfort in the pain of others"?

I shouldn't be surprised...but it still surprises me, such statements.

By extension I suppose you believe that all conservative-thinking people also feel comfort in the pain of others, that this comfort drives them. This is handy, isn't it? It means you can automatically discount the views of any conservative-minded fellow. No need to get into a detailed debate. No need to understand the other point of view. Easier to vote for your side then, even if some issues may have iffy takes...


In case anyone needs it: no, of course I don't feel comfort in the pain of anyone. I strive to be empathetic, and sympathetic, to all people and all views within the realms of reason & moral fairness. This used to be common. I believe it still is, but is in danger of dying out in favour of the polarisation-ideal which has dominated online-communications, and which is catching up fast to the real world.


This polarisation-ideal we see in the reaction to the SCOTUS decision. Two sides: one winning...gloating and gleeful. One losing...outraged and ready for a fight. Barely anywhere do we see a balanced view.

And now on to the next big topic, whatever it may be. Choose a side, and damn the other one.

 

[dholliday]

I think this take is why I haven't been able to once agree with your perspective in any of your posts on this thread so far. The idea that only the left has moved further left and the right remained static in relation is very naiive unless you had a right leaning left bashing agenda, which I suspect you do.

It's a very common accepted view that these last 10 years the mainstream Left have moved Far Left, and that as a consequence Left-of-Centre types feel now somewhat more akin with the moderate Right. The mainstream Right now are less accepting of foreign wars. Where would you say their mainstream Right has moved further to the extreme? Assuming they too have moved, then maybe the Horseshoe Theory fits:

Horseshoe theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We've lost the Centre. Tony Blair & George Bush frakked it up when they ignored all protests and invaded Iraq. Clegg's Lib Dems had a chance with their Tory-coalition but they couldn't (or wouldn't) seize the day, now he's a chief with one of the architects of todays' polarisation. Obama promised change, but just ended up dropping more bombs. The people became so utterly disillusioned with the false-promises of politics that they craved certainty.

So now we're bombarded with an endless conveyor-belt of news-stories which demand either an extreme Left or extreme Right interpretation. Many folk - from both sides - now get their sense of certainty from these issues. Presenting one side with the other point of view has become a walking-on-eggshells task, and even then doesn't get through.



It didn't used to be this extreme...did we get here by accident, or design? How would we have responded to the pandemic had it started in 2000 and not 2020?

Is the pandemic's response related to this polarisation? Conspiracy theorists think so.

 

[dholliday]

I want a fairer world. A world where people who get screwed over get a fairer deal. It's not straightforward, but that's it.

We agree on that


How do we get there, when we have this hardcore-polarisation everywhere? We deffo need both sides to make a fairer world, but they're at loggerheads with each other.

Thanks for reconsidering your post, it's a grand first step towards less polarisation, and more fairness with each other x

 

[Jebus_lives]

You tell me, jebus.



I demonstrated that the conservative Right, a massive chunk of the population, feel in the moral right when it comes to the contraceptive-abortion debate...as the saving of a child's life outranks the feelings of a grown woman (assuming no health/rape issues, which are the vast majority).

This appears in stark contrast to your blanket statement on the Left being the good guys and the Right being the bad guys. Which statement is therefore more bollocks?

It's all not so black 'n white. Both sides can't be right. But it seems very unlikely (and unusual, considering the complexities of human nature) for one side to be absolutely right, and the other absolutely wrong.

This polarisation programme...in keeping with the conspiracy-theme of this thread...is intentional. It's an intentional media-driven strategy to reduce people's thought-ability to basic black-n-white structures (like an Orwellian Thought Police, complete with language-control). A population with reduced thought, with a lack of nuance in their thinking, will more readily target the other (with opposing views) rather than who, or what, is driving this polarisation in the first place.

The pandemic was itself a real eye-opener...nuance was dead. Considering the perspectives of others with different views was utter taboo. The dehumanising of the unvaccinated was accepted & promoted by the same side who usually (loudly) decry such a thing...the same side who often have Pride/Ukraine/BLM flags in tribute.


Polarisation is the real enemy here. Not the Right (not the Left if you're a conservative). This polarisation is no accident.


It's a conspiracy theory now...but I have a funny feeling there's something really to it.



So from everything I've written (and I've tried to be precise & thoughtful) your take is that I'm "driven by feeling comfort in the pain of others"?

I shouldn't be surprised...but it still surprises me, such statements.

By extension I suppose you believe that all conservative-thinking people also feel comfort in the pain of others, that this comfort drives them. This is handy, isn't it? It means you can automatically discount the views of any conservative-minded fellow. No need to get into a detailed debate. No need to understand the other point of view. Easier to vote for your side then, even if some issues may have iffy takes...


In case anyone needs it: no, of course I don't feel comfort in the pain of anyone. I strive to be empathetic, and sympathetic, to all people and all views within the realms of reason & moral fairness. This used to be common. I believe it still is, but is in danger of dying out in favour of the polarisation-ideal which has dominated online-communications, and which is catching up fast to the real world.


This polarisation-ideal we see in the reaction to the SCOTUS decision. Two sides: one winning...gloating and gleeful. One losing...outraged and ready for a fight. Barely anywhere do we see a balanced view.

And now on to the next big topic, whatever it may be. Choose a side, and damn the other one.

I'll take that as a dodging the question.

 

[Jebus_lives]

It's a very common accepted view that these last 10 years the mainstream Left have moved Far Left, and that as a consequence Left-of-Centre types feel now somewhat more akin with the moderate Right. The mainstream Right now are less accepting of foreign wars. Where would you say their mainstream Right has moved further to the extreme? Assuming they too have moved, then maybe the Horseshoe Theory fits:

Horseshoe theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We've lost the Centre. Tony Blair & George Bush frakked it up when they ignored all protests and invaded Iraq. Clegg's Lib Dems had a chance with their Tory-coalition but they couldn't (or wouldn't) seize the day, now he's a chief with one of the architects of todays' polarisation. Obama promised change, but just ended up dropping more bombs. The people became so utterly disillusioned with the false-promises of politics that they craved certainty.

So now we're bombarded with an endless conveyor-belt of news-stories which demand either an extreme Left or extreme Right interpretation. Many folk - from both sides - now get their sense of certainty from these issues. Presenting one side with the other point of view has become a walking-on-eggshells task, and even then doesn't get through.



It didn't used to be this extreme...did we get here by accident, or design? How would we have responded to the pandemic had it started in 2000 and not 2020?

Is the pandemic's response related to this polarisation? Conspiracy theorists think so.

Loving the "conspiracy theorists think so" like this is a collective legitimate branch of scientific and theoretical study as opposed to Debbie and friends reading half baked psuedo science on Facebook.

 

[Oddball]

some posting there Doc. (@dholliday)

 

[PKwalnuts]

It's a very common accepted view that these last 10 years the mainstream Left have moved Far Left, and that as a consequence Left-of-Centre types feel now somewhat more akin with the moderate Right.

I don't believe this view is common or accepted

Where would you say their mainstream Right has moved further to the extreme?

Think you only need to see the testimonies in US last few weeks to see evidenced recent example of a culmination of mainstream right moving far further right

Assuming they too have moved, then maybe the Horseshoe Theory fits:

Horseshoe theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Don't like this one Horsehoe fits all theory at all, a convenient explanation of two extremes

We've lost the Centre. Tony Blair & George Bush frakked it up when they ignored all protests and invaded Iraq. Clegg's Lib Dems had a chance with their Tory-coalition but they couldn't (or wouldn't) seize the day, now he's a chief with one of the architects of todays' polarisation. Obama promised change, but just ended up dropping more bombs. The people became so utterly disillusioned with the false-promises of politics that they craved certainty.

There will always be a place for centrist views and I don't believe this is lost. Clegg was a liar with no authority in that coalition in a yearn for power and status move that he has clearly benefitted from and since shown his right leaning principles. I think Obama changed a lot of things, but he was always going to be hamstrung in that societal set up. People are always disillusioned and looking for something to blame, they certainty that maybe craved hasn't been demonstrated anywhere in recent times.

So now we're bombarded with an endless conveyor-belt of news-stories which demand either an extreme Left or extreme Right interpretation.

That POV depends where you get your bombardment of news from and if you choose to favour news from a certain direction, interpretation of any piece of news will always be influenced by individual biases

Many folk - from both sides - now get their sense of certainty from these issues. Presenting one side with the other point of view has become a walking-on-eggshells task, and even then doesn't get through.

I disagree and thi k the opposite is true, I think people don't have any sense of certainty currently, and are less inclined to walk on eggs shells these days as they can jump on crowd bandwagons in this world of cancel culture, and an ease of finding like minded people to support whatever view they hold

It didn't used to be this extreme...did we get here by accident, or design?

I think the extreme has always existed, these people just have the platforms now to reach more people, and have a better understanding of the techniques to influence them

How would we have responded to the pandemic had it started in 2000 and not 2020?

This is a completely separate topic, I would like to think worse as surely our knowledge generally on matters is always collectively improving. However there is an argument, that the planning and ability to manage such such an event was handled worse by this administration than perhaps earlier administrations could have done.

Is the pandemic's response related to this polarisation? Conspiracy theorists think so.

The pandemic response was to protect the majority of people, the extremes believe this was to take liberties away, and conspiracy theorists have cultivated a niche for this akin to Sep 11 theorists, Moon Landing Theorists, anon, have to suit their own agendas.

 

[verreauxi]

 

[dholliday]

.

I don't believe this view is common or accepted



Think you only need to see the testimonies in US last few weeks to see evidenced recent example of a culmination of mainstream right moving far further right



Don't like this one Horsehoe fits all theory at all, a convenient explanation of two extremes



There will always be a place for centrist views and I don't believe this is lost. Clegg was a liar with no authority in that coalition in a yearn for power and status move that he has clearly benefitted from and since shown his right leaning principles. I think Obama changed a lot of things, but he was always going to be hamstrung in that societal set up. People are always disillusioned and looking for something to blame, they certainty that maybe craved hasn't been demonstrated anywhere in recent times.



That POV depends where you get your bombardment of news from and if you choose to favour news from a certain direction, interpretation of any piece of news will always be influenced by individual biases



I disagree and thi k the opposite is true, I think people don't have any sense of certainty currently, and are less inclined to walk on eggs shells these days as they can jump on crowd bandwagons in this world of cancel culture, and an ease of finding like minded people to support whatever view they hold



I think the extreme has always existed, these people just have the platforms now to reach more people, and have a better understanding of the techniques to influence them



This is a completely separate topic, I would like to think worse as surely our knowledge generally on matters is always collectively improving. However there is an argument, that the planning and ability to manage such such an event was handled worse by this administration than perhaps earlier administrations could have done.



The pandemic response was to protect the majority of people, the extremes believe this was to take liberties away, and conspiracy theorists have cultivated a niche for this akin to Sep 11 theorists, Moon Landing Theorists, anon, have to suit their own agendas.

good post, tho' i disagree with bits it's a pleasant agree-to-disagree vibe.

 

[WA Toffee]

Did what?

When you said someone used logic and won their argument, and compared them to davek for that reason.
When you did that is the point I realised you had lost your mind

 

[Grogu the blue]

This is fine though, yeah?

Yeah these girls are beautiful, I’d rather this than an hairy arse twerked in my face. Thanks for clip?

 

[LostLegend]

Yeah these girls are beautiful, I’d rather this than an hairy arse twerked in my face. Thanks for clip?

Coming back 5 days later to post this... what an odd person.

 

[Grogu the blue]

Coming back 5 days later to post this... what an odd person.

Got banned!