Conspiracy theories

[Oddball]

I think I know the answer to number 3. Is it "politicians that are responsible for saving the lives of those they are elected to represent in response to the widespread online hoaxes and made up bullsh1t that conspiracy theorists spread about Covid and the Covid vaccine, which for some strange reason some people blindly believed and then went searching for more and more obscure youtube videos which supported their biased vision and told everyone else to do the same by shouting 'do your research' while just blindly believing everything some random nutter posts on youtube"?

Am I close?

nope. it was a trick question, @dholliday posted the answer already. you are supposed to only look at one version of the truth, don`t go snooping around asking inconvenient questions either, and stick to the official narrative because the politicians you elected to represent and safe-guard your interests are risking their lives daily and deserve to party hard occasionally even though you can`t visit your sick cat at the vets, rules is rules and they must be followed to the letter by everyone .....................well nearly everyone.................ok then, only Joe Public..........but its for Joes` own good just thank God our elected representatives survived those parties and are still alive to pursue our best interests, God bless `em, everyone....sniff

 

[dholliday]

First up though, how do you do that multi quote thing?

Hit ENTER with the curser at the bit you'd like to chop off.

1. You were discussing C against B. I was discussing C against A.

The whole point was comparing C-to-B (i.e. were heat-deaths on the rise?).

As I mentioned before, you were too blinded by your need to be right

I don't need to be right, i discuss things here in detail to hopefully inspire detailed responses in return. A good debate of opposing views is rare these days, but GOT is still up to it (occasionally).

6. ABC

I checked several ABC pieces on Covid...reader-comments deactivated in all (i wonder why).

Your other suggestions are localised. "social media" is non-specific. Facebook & Youtube users display a dominant anti-vax sentiment. Twitter somewhat 50/50 (as it's made up of a lot of Establishment types...and their hangers-on).


Feel free to share some specific links which show a mainstream readership pro-vax consensus (say anything from June onwards).

I think I know the answer to number 3. Is it "politicians that are responsible for saving the lives of those they are elected to represent in response to the widespread online hoaxes and made up bullsh1t that conspiracy theorists spread about Covid and the Covid vaccine, which for some strange reason some people blindly believed and then went searching for more and more obscure youtube videos which supported their biased vision and told everyone else to do the same by shouting 'do your research' while just blindly believing everything some random nutter posts on youtube"?

Am I close?

No.

 

[dholliday]

Ok, I’ve explained this already

You haven't, but have now. I appreciate the detail. I understand your argument, but it reads like skirting away from vax-issues rather than facing them.

In the real-world, victims of the vaccine have no other option than to self-report, as the alternatives are logistically & technically too complex. That these reports can then be dismissed as 'unsubstantiated' comes across as quite convenient.

The self reporting systems can only identify a potential signal within a noisy dataset

Plenty of potential signals in there! Like for one: what is the vaccine doing to reproductive systems?

UK: reports of 30,000 women’s periods affected after COVID-19 vaccine

Covid-19 vaccination BNT162b2 temporarily impairs semen concentration and total motile count


Can these be explained by heightened immune response alone? Frankly, we don't know...as famously MRNA-vaccines haven't been long-term tested, making it literally impossible to know what it may be doing long-term to folk until a few years down the line.

As to the heart-related issues it's causing in young men, again we don't know if these issues may re-appear (with or without regular boosters). Or if they may still appear in those as-yet unaffected. Only time will tell.

Let's hope for the best.

 

[dholliday]

Right, correct me if I'm wrong, unvaccinated mainly just hurt themselves?

Not even. Unvaccinated with Covid have roughly the same symptoms, heaviness and duration as vaccinated.

Arguably less so, when looking at the latest official death stats (i had to really hunt for these!):

Steps to get data:

1) click on hyperlink above
2) click bottom-tab "Contents"
3) click "Table 1" Link, then "open Link"
4) scroll down to Row 302: "Deaths involving Covid-19" for May 22 - Unvaccinated.
5) scroll down to Row 309/310: "Deaths involving Covid-19" for May 22 - Boosted/Vaccinated.

UK Unvaccinated: 82 deaths of Covid-19 in May 2022.

UK Vaccinated: 1282 deaths of Covid-19 in May 2022 (1155 boosted).



This corresponds to my earlier estimate that the hospitals are dealing with 90% vaccinated Covid cases.

Should it be this difficult to get hold of this data? How are the media reporting these figures?

It contradicts the written conclusions we still see from the government & media: that [paraphrasing] the vaccine protects against serious illness & death, the unvaccinated have more risk of serious illness & death.

If it did, those death-numbers wouldn't be skewed over 90% jabbed.


So what's going on? And will we see a renewed push for the, statistically now-ineffective, vaccine in the Autumn?

A new Omicron-vaccine will likely appear just in time for the colder months, mitigating the above criticism.

If that happens, then let's check back early next year to see how the death-rates between vaxxed/unvaxxed have changed, and how (if at all) the dialogue towards jab side-effects & the unvaccinated has evolved.

Everyone, vaccinated or not can still carry and spread covid?

Of course. The Omicron waves proved the vaccinated can get infected and transmit the virus just as much as unvaccinated can. Even more so, due to them having had more freedoms.

As to the old theory that the unvaccinated are responsible for the mutations of variants, this has no reliable evidence.


There is no reason...none...zero...for the unvaccinated to be demonised or disadvantaged in any way. Yet they have been...everywhere, even on GOT. In Germany, the propaganda has been so strong that the Kanzler (PM-equivalent) told the nation via tv-broadcast that "the unvaccinated are a danger to our children", and the Chief Health Minister told us that the vax is "free of side-effects".

This isn't normal.

The almost-religious defence of the vaccine - and attacking of the unfaithful - is a true phenomenon of our age. It's no wonder conspiracy theories get a work-out.

Exactly what, if any, actual conspiracy is involved may never become clear.

I've had pains in my arm for over a year where he second jab was. Its now progressed to pins and needles all day long in the last few weeks. I should probably got he doctors tbh. lol

That's annoying. Seems to be a common side-effect (jab-pain not going away).

Have you had Covid and/or the booster?

 

[dholliday]

From childrens' hospital of Philadelphia website...

Some people ask the question, “If vaccines work, why do unvaccinated people present a risk to those who have been vaccinated?” Two simple facts contribute to this answer. First: Vaccines aren’t 100 percent effective. So even some people who are vaccinated will still be at risk.

How is that an answer to the question? They are equally at-risk from infection via vaccinated folk.

Second: The greater the number of unvaccinated people in a community, the more opportunity germs have to spread.

There is no evidence for this claim. Compare nations with high vax-rates with those of low vax-rates. Compare case numbers.

 

[dholliday]

when looking at the latest official death stats (i had to really hunt for these!):

Steps to get data:

1) click on hyperlink above
2) click bottom-tab "Contents"
3) click "Table 1" Link, then "open Link"
4) scroll down to Row 302: "Deaths involving Covid-19" for May 22 - Unvaccinated.
5) scroll down to Row 309/310: "Deaths involving Covid-19" for May 22 - Boosted/Vaccinated.

UK Unvaccinated: 82 deaths of Covid-19 in May 2022.

UK Vaccinated: 1282 deaths of Covid-19 in May 2022 (1155 boosted).

For reference, the directly-downloadable hyperlinked Table is from here (open-arrow of latest data-set to download Table):

Deaths by vaccination status, England - Office for National Statistics

Age-standardised mortality rates for deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19), non-COVID-19 deaths and all deaths by vaccination status, broken down by age group.

www.ons.gov.uk

 

[Lobster Johnson]

Not even. Unvaccinated with Covid have roughly the same symptoms, heaviness and duration as vaccinated.

Arguably less so, when looking at the latest official death stats (i had to really hunt for these!):

Steps to get data:

1) click on hyperlink above
2) click bottom-tab "Contents"
3) click "Table 1" Link, then "open Link"
4) scroll down to Row 302: "Deaths involving Covid-19" for May 22 - Unvaccinated.
5) scroll down to Row 309/310: "Deaths involving Covid-19" for May 22 - Boosted/Vaccinated.

UK Unvaccinated: 82 deaths of Covid-19 in May 2022.

UK Vaccinated: 1282 deaths of Covid-19 in May 2022 (1155 boosted).



This corresponds to my earlier estimate that the hospitals are dealing with 90% vaccinated Covid cases.

Should it be this difficult to get hold of this data? How are the media reporting these figures?

It contradicts the written conclusions we still see from the government & media: that [paraphrasing] the vaccine protects against serious illness & death, the unvaccinated have more risk of serious illness & death.

If it did, those death-numbers wouldn't be skewed over 90% jabbed.


So what's going on? And will we see a renewed push for the, statistically now-ineffective, vaccine in the Autumn?

A new Omicron-vaccine will likely appear just in time for the colder months, mitigating the above criticism.

If that happens, then let's check back early next year to see how the death-rates between vaxxed/unvaxxed have changed, and how (if at all) the dialogue towards jab side-effects & the unvaccinated has evolved.




Of course. The Omicron waves proved the vaccinated can get infected and transmit the virus just as much as unvaccinated can. Even more so, due to them having had more freedoms.

As to the old theory that the unvaccinated are responsible for the mutations of variants, this has no reliable evidence.


There is no reason...none...zero...for the unvaccinated to be demonised or disadvantaged in any way. Yet they have been...everywhere, even on GOT. In Germany, the propaganda has been so strong that the Kanzler (PM-equivalent) told the nation via tv-broadcast that "the unvaccinated are a danger to our children", and the Chief Health Minister told us that the vax is "free of side-effects".

This isn't normal.

The almost-religious defence of the vaccine - and attacking of the unfaithful - is a true phenomenon of our age. It's no wonder conspiracy theories get a work-out.

Exactly what, if any, actual conspiracy is involved may never become clear.




That's annoying. Seems to be a common side-effect (jab-pain not going away).

Have you had Covid and/or the booster?

What's the size of each population or the % of deaths from each?

 

[dholliday]

What's the size of each population or the % of deaths from each?

you're gonna have to be more specific. What would you like to know, why can't you find this data and how does it relate to my post?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Oh hello, banned from the CA a certain someone has found a new outlet tor their Covid stuff.

Well I never.

 

[trueblue84]

How is that an answer to the question? They are equally at-risk from infection via vaccinated folk.



There is no evidence for this claim. Compare nations with high vax-rates with those of low vax-rates. Compare case numbers.

I don't think they are at equal risk to unvaccinated people. There are other diseases that have been effectively wiped out due to vaccinations. If vaccinated people were equally at risk, the disease would remain prevelant. That is the same for COVID. It may be a question of a vaccinations efficacy against the various strains, but general consensus amongst the medical community is still that the vaccine is beneficial.

Have you compared mortality rates in vaccinated Vs unvaccinated countries?

Can I ask what your issue is with the vaccine? Is it simply that it doesn't work or that they are somehow a plot to control us?

 

[Oddball]

@dholliday- i don`t think that posting all the data you have collected will be understood by the NPC members here, they don`t have critical thinking and react to anything and everything their programming tells them.

 

[Lobster Johnson]

@dholliday- i don`t think that posting all the data you have collected will be understood by the NPC members here, they don`t have critical thinking and react to anything and everything their programming tells them.

Not you though, you're way smarter than everybody else.

 

[dholliday]

That is the same for COVID.

Disagree, the evidence of the numbers of deaths/hospitalisations/case-numbers suggest the vaccines are no longer effective, at least in terms of rolling them out for all.

I agree the old, ill and willing should still have the option to take them.

I agree on vaccines generally (pre-Covid-19) having been a significant profound net-benefit for mankind. My kid has all the usuals.

Have you compared mortality rates in vaccinated Vs unvaccinated countries?

Have you? Compare using this years' data...2022. Let me know what you've found.

Can I ask what your issue is with the vaccine? Is it simply that it doesn't work or that they are somehow a plot to control us?

As i've said multiple times...my issue is the demonisation & the limiting of freedoms of people who choose not to get vaccinated. This isn't based on evidence (despite claims it is). What exactly this demonisation is based on remains a matter of debate. Conspiracy? Or something else?

But if that improves (i.e. it becomes acceptable for folk to choose not to get jabbed), then i've got no issue with the vaccine anymore. People should be free to take it...or not to take it. Like the flu jab.

 

[dholliday]

Oh hello, banned from the CA a certain someone has found a new outlet tor their Covid stuff.

Well I never.

we may be talking about the biggest conspiracy in history here.

so on-topic.


what's yr take, luv?

 

[PKwalnuts]

What do you want?