Corruption or big team bias

[Dymak]

The unconscious bias being discussed is similar to the inferiority complex held by many Evertonians.

 

[GoldenToffee]

Where there is vast amounts of money, there is most likely corruption.

Where there is vast amounts of money there is absolutely, unequivocally, corruption at all levels.

 

[Moonlight dribble]

I rem

….referees have become more high-profile and I think most get carried away with their importance.

For me nothing is worst than referees leading the players onto the pitch and claiming the match ball. The game is about footballers, referees should come onto a pitch last. Sky even have a useless, incoherent Mike Dean on their live results show talking about VAR decisions. I remember last season when DCL disgracefully had a goal disallowed at Spurs, Dean said confidently, ‘no way will this be overturned’.

Where there’s big money and gambling in sport there’s usually corruption.

I remember reading in a Liverpool v Sheff utd match.

The ref called two players to him
'Stevie come here please'
'Sheffield number 5 over here now'

Hope it is not true.

 

[Eggs]

I rem

I remember reading in a Liverpool v Sheff utd match.

The ref called two players to him
'Stevie come here please'
'Sheffield number 5 over here now'

Hope it is not true.

….remember him telling Clattenburg to put the yellow back and give Hibbert a red.

 

[Lob]

Well we know the Premier league themselves are corrupt and biased and plenty of ex refs such as Clattenburg have admitted to officiating in a biased manner at certain stadiums due to being scared of reactions so the answer is a resounding yes they are biased and are fully aware that they are which by definition makes them corrupt. And some are just really poor at their jobs.

Officiating has gone downhill a lot over the years but corruption and bias still existed back then. Collina for example.

 

[Macker07]

….remember him telling Clattenburg to put the yellow back and give Hibbert a red.

Wasn't he suspended after that game for irregular payments into a company he owned?

 

[Eggs]

Wasn't he suspended after that game for irregular payments into a company he owned?

….not sure, but I recall the story coming out that Gerrard and Carragher had taken Clattenburg out on the ale (in Hong Kong I think).

 

[GH_1982]

Wasn't he suspended after that game for irregular payments into a company he owned?

I think his company went into administration and they thought he was then susceptible to bribes..

 

[Bluelenny1984]

Where there is vast amounts of money there is absolutely, unequivocally, corruption at all levels.

Said it better than me, but yeah this!!

 

[Amw79]

It's a combination of everything. I've heard (admittedly only anecdotally) that a well thought of ref in the lower leagues refused the 'promotion' to the Premier League because he wouldn't interpret the rules the way they wanted him to. I think it's reasonable to believe that the fouls that ref's don't give - for shirt pulling/pushing in the penalty box, those that they do give for lesser contact outside the box, is a result of the unspoken/unofficial rules given to them by the Premier League. I also suspect that they are told 'if in doubt, favour the big (money generating) teams'. This inevitably leads to unconcious bias. I alo believe that there is corruption - given the amount of money involved it would be incredibly naive to think otherwise (depite the knee-jerk denial of every one of the pundits - eg; those on the gravy train).
There's a lot of nonsense spouted about 'the ref letting the game flow' and 'keeping 11 v 11 on the pitch. That's not his job! His job is to enforce the rules.
Lasty (you'll be relieved to hear), i don't think that ref's should be laughing and joking with the players or on first name terms with them on the pitch. Rugby refs aren't. They'll call the captain over or say 'number 6 you are being penalised for....' - it lets players know (sublimally) who is in charge.

Love this post. There’s about equal amounts I agree and disagree with.

 

[Moomin]

I think his company went into administration and they thought he was then susceptible to bribes..

Yeah, he was a horrible person.

I dealt with him when he was a contract manager at Lorne Stewart and everyone hated him.

 

[Lineker]

It's a combination of everything. I've heard (admittedly only anecdotally) that a well thought of ref in the lower leagues refused the 'promotion' to the Premier League because he wouldn't interpret the rules the way they wanted him to. I think it's reasonable to believe that the fouls that ref's don't give - for shirt pulling/pushing in the penalty box, those that they do give for lesser contact outside the box, is a result of the unspoken/unofficial rules given to them by the Premier League. I also suspect that they are told 'if in doubt, favour the big (money generating) teams'. This inevitably leads to unconcious bias. I alo believe that there is corruption - given the amount of money involved it would be incredibly naive to think otherwise (depite the knee-jerk denial of every one of the pundits - eg; those on the gravy train).
There's a lot of nonsense spouted about 'the ref letting the game flow' and 'keeping 11 v 11 on the pitch. That's not his job! His job is to enforce the rules.
Lasty (you'll be relieved to hear), i don't think that ref's should be laughing and joking with the players or on first name terms with them on the pitch. Rugby refs aren't. They'll call the captain over or say 'number 6 you are being penalised for....' - it lets players know (sublimally) who is in charge.

Rugby refs are always chatting with the players using their firstnames...it is when they give official explanations that they switch to blue 6 etc.

We are taught as (football) referees that we should talk to the players, and i think using their names is not necessarily a bad idea...I would expect that refs at this level would know how to apply it correctly.

That said, prem league refs absolutely infuriate me...the only time we get a fair performance is when it is one of them that comes up from the championship for a game or two...the premier league regulars are biased.

 

[Lineker]

Their game management is first rate, i admire them for it. It is in the uneven application of the rules, i.e. decis9n to caution or not, where some teams always get the benefit, and others get the short end...and these refs are good enough to know what they are doing.

Another thing that repeatedly gets me is the decision to play advantage or not...they seem to get it wrong for some clubs and not others...small things maybe, but they add up, and the players see it too and know what is going on.

Hard to remain on the front foot if you know the deck is stacked against you.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

I'd be really surprised if there are systemic levels of corruption going on in the PGMOL, though I wouldn't be massively surprised if it comes out in future years that there are isolated incidents (given the money involved).

For the most part I think it's gross incompetence and unconscious (or sometimes concious) bias. Mike Dean is a bell, but his insight into how he would have refereed matches and decision making process tells you all you need to know about the inner workings, there is no even playing field.

100% re Mike Dean. I have heard him utter "not in a game as big as this" numerous times without anyone picking him up on it. Absolute fwit.

 

[Kevsleftpeg]

I also think there’s an element of not screwing up one of the Sky 6 teams, because if the ref does, bang go their chances of getting a high profile game for a while or worse, get demoted to reffing in the Championship

Definitely, and every bad decision against the top 6 is magnified by the client media.