Crypto currency (IF banned from CA)

mill said:
I don’t really get what you mean by this.
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A lot of crypto projects like to claim that they will use the Blockchain and their token solve some arbitrary problem, or that they will revolutionize a certain business/industry etc etc. The reality is 99% of them do nothing and will never be used in the real world, but they might see amazing price performance.

This is largely because all the Blockchain is, is a slow expensive database. It is great for censorship resistance but not much else.

There are only two use cases for crypto, Store of value and speculation, there are a few exceptions but generally thats it

The store of value guys only care about price go up

The speculation guys only care about price go up.

Investing in crypto gives you the chance to make gains that are impossible to achieve in any traditional investment market, the price you pay for this is volatility.

I am comfortable with this and I don't pretend that Blockchain will change the world, I am simply in it for the money and have done very well.
 

DuuuncanHadaPigeon said:
A lot of crypto projects like to claim that they will use the Blockchain and their token solve some arbitrary problem, or that they will revolutionize a certain business/industry etc etc. The reality is 99% of them do nothing and will never be used in the real world, but they might see amazing price performance.

This is largely because all the Blockchain is, is a slow expensive database. It is great for censorship resistance but not much else.

There are only two use cases for crypto, Store of value and speculation, there are a few exceptions but generally thats it

The store of value guys only care about price go up

The speculation guys only care about price go up.

Investing in crypto gives you the chance to make gains that are impossible to achieve in any traditional investment market, the price you pay for this is volatility.

I am comfortable with this and I don't pretend that Blockchain will change the world, I am simply in it for the money and have done very well.
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The reason why I ask is that if there is no real world application for the underlying tech then long term the value of said crypto will likely go to zero as it woupr effectively be backed by nothing. There would be no real drivers to keep value. Investors, particularly institutional investors won’t invest in something that has no long term intrinsic value (things can still go up a lot in the meantime like but that’s the nature of a bubble).
 
mill said:
The reason why I ask is that if there is no real world application for the underlying tech then long term the value of said crypto will likely go to zero as it woupr effectively be backed by nothing. There would be no real drivers to keep value. Investors, particularly institutional investors won’t invest in something that has no long term intrinsic value (things can still go up a lot in the meantime like but that’s the nature of a bubble).
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Censorship resistance is very valuable but I agree, that's why if you go back to 2017 bull run, and say look at the top 100 coins and compare to now there are not many still there.

There are thousands of coins made every day, nearly all of them will go to zero or already have done.

The institutional money in crypto is largely just in BTC/ETH and a handful of other coins, you won't see VCs investing in the likes of shiba, which I think will go to zero in the next cycle
 
DuuuncanHadaPigeon said:
Censorship resistance is very valuable but I agree, that's why if you go back to 2017 bull run, and say look at the top 100 coins and compare to now there are not many still there.

There are thousands of coins made every day, nearly all of them will go to zero or already have done.

The institutional money in crypto is largely just in BTC/ETH and a handful of other coins, you won't see VCs investing in the likes of shiba, which I think will go to zero in the next cycle
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No mate.
 

DuuuncanHadaPigeon said:
It is, the majority of institutional money goes to BTC/ETH

Look at grayscale for example, they have 52/53 billion in crypto assets and just over 50billion of that is in BTC/ETH.

Sure they have small holdings of other coins but not that much in grand scheme of things.
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I took your comment to mean that the largest number of institutions focus mostly on BTC or ETH.

When im talking about 'the majority of institutional money' then I would say that most people i deal with have a portfolio of investments of which those may be two of them.

The key to what they are investing in are:

The story behind the product
The risk
The upside potential

Then the weighting is usually defined based on the term length they hold for.

Some of these coins, like Shiba which you mentioned isnt attractive as theres is no story, no realistic upside potential and enormous risk.

However, nothing in this game is certain and there are murky waters where retail drives the product or institutions market make on the price.

Heres a double barrelled uestion for you, if a coin with a good story, strong upside potential and 'relatively' low risk launches at $0.50 for example where do you think a market maker could 'easily' push the coin with absolutely minimal risk (no burning + 400mil coins).

Secondly, at what price do you think Institutions come together and offer the large capital for a % ?
 
I enjoy reading what you guys think and do but still not much the wiser on how the value is underpinned.
Im glad you can turn a dollar or two but just who is giving you the profit other than another crypto enthusiast who made the opposite call to you?
 
Zatara said:
I took your comment to mean that the largest number of institutions focus mostly on BTC or ETH.

When im talking about 'the majority of institutional money' then I would say that most people i deal with have a portfolio of investments of which those may be two of them.

The key to what they are investing in are:

The story behind the product
The risk
The upside potential

Then the weighting is usually defined based on the term length they hold for.

Some of these coins, like Shiba which you mentioned isnt attractive as theres is no story, no realistic upside potential and enormous risk.

However, nothing in this game is certain and there are murky waters where retail drives the product or institutions market make on the price.

Heres a double barrelled uestion for you, if a coin with a good story, strong upside potential and 'relatively' low risk launches at $0.50 for example where do you think a market maker could 'easily' push the coin with absolutely minimal risk (no burning + 400mil coins).

Secondly, at what price do you think Institutions come together and offer the large capital for a % ?
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Ye I was referencing the bigger players like grayscale, but sure there are smaller funds that will be a lot more diverse.

100x easily based on two assumptions, relatively low market cap and low liquidity.

I am not sure on second question, what would you say?
 
Johnniepk said:
I enjoy reading what you guys think and do but still not much the wiser on how the value is underpinned.
Im glad you can turn a dollar or two but just who is giving you the profit other than another crypto enthusiast who made the opposite call to you?
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When you buy a stock and sell it later for a higher price, who is giving you the profit other than another stock enthusiast?
 
DuuuncanHadaPigeon said:
Ye I was referencing the bigger players like grayscale, but sure there are smaller funds that will be a lot more diverse.

100x easily based on two assumptions, relatively low market cap and low liquidity.

I am not sure on second question, what would you say?
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Generally $0.50 can go to $10 before risk elements come into play (thats if youre market making and then releasing to the market to see if it will push on organically)...so, 20X typically.

Again, generally they table offers at $2-4 in this example which can decrease as the price moves up to $10 level. Then those initial institutions (the guys you would call whales) are replaced by different fish.

Always caveats but it shows you how risk averse these institutions are.
 

Zatara said:
Generally $0.50 can go to $10 before risk elements come into play (thats if youre market making and then releasing to the market to see if it will push on organically)...so, 20X typically.

Again, generally they table offers at $2-4 in this example which can decrease as the price moves up to $10 level. Then those initial institutions (the guys you would call whales) are replaced by different fish.

Always caveats but it shows you how risk averse these institutions are.
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Interesting, thanks for the insight.
 
Zatara said:
Generally $0.50 can go to $10 before risk elements come into play (thats if youre market making and then releasing to the market to see if it will push on organically)...so, 20X typically.

Again, generally they table offers at $2-4 in this example which can decrease as the price moves up to $10 level. Then those initial institutions (the guys you would call whales) are replaced by different fish.

Always caveats but it shows you how risk averse these institutions are.
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Just a thought, in terms of marketcap, when are these institutions talk about getting in? and what level of investment are we talking. I understand if you can't give away too much just curious
 
DuuuncanHadaPigeon said:
Just a thought, in terms of marketcap, when are these institutions talk about getting in? and what level of investment are we talking. I understand if you can't give away too much just curious
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The fewer the coins makes burn rate gimmicks irrelevsnt.

The fewer the coins increases the demand.

Something that i described with say 400/500mil coins could go to $50bil+ as an example depending on the story, the risk and the upside of the product.
 
Zatara said:
The fewer the coins makes burn rate gimmicks irrelevsnt.

The fewer the coins increases the demand.

Something that i described with say 400/500mil coins could go to $50bil+ as an example depending on the story, the risk and the upside of the product.
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Hmm I would personally disagree, unit bias is a thing. People would rather their $100 got them 2 billion coins rather than 2 coins, but I'm sure institutions see it differently.
 

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