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David Moyes - Taking a knife to a gunfight at West Ham, Part 2

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JobForTheMoyes said:
You know as well as I do that we were cheated out of that qualification round by Collina. UEFA didn't want us in the competition as Liverpool had just won the Champions League.
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That's one incident in a game.

I mean if we played better and scored more goals there would not have been a chance to screw us.

And it still doesn't excuse the Europa League fiasco.
 
Papa Shango said:
Only if they get past the qualifiers. (assuming they still have them?)
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The top 4 go straight into the group phase as the premier league is one of the highest ranked leagues. There are no qualifiers for any of the top four - tbf there haven't been for a few years now.

The prem teams keep getting into the later stages so it will continue until the change in format currently envisaged goes through. Then the top ranking clubs in Europe will all qualify regardless of their domestic league performance which will have knock on effects down the line.
 
JobForTheMoyes said:
That's not entirely true. They are terrible at the back at the moment as their first choice centre half is injured. And when I say terrible, they were very solid yesterday before losing another of their defenders, and sticking a wing back in their due to their lack of cover.

One of the more impressive things is he turned their previously sieve-like defensive game into something approaching a tough nut.
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they get torn up when its all 10 men back to protect a lead, granted they are building up big enough leads to mostly stem the tide. Maybe Moyes feels like he has to do this give the lack of quality in the back support, but in doing so he's taking the ball away from his best players.
 
If every season he’s had since he left Everton has been abject failure is he really that good a manger if he’s doing well at Weat Ham for one season?
 
KaiserEFC said:
If every season he’s had since he left Everton has been abject failure is he really that good a manger if he’s doing well at Weat Ham for one season?
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I think he has some very very good traits and needs to be in the right environment to be relatively successful.

Man Utd was defo the wrong move for him, it was never a good fit and I think Ferguson sort of knew that when he set him up for the fall.

Sociedad, not really sure as I didn't really follow him there.

West Ham part 1, did a good job but the owners thought differently and was unfairly sacked

Sunderland was a poisoned chalice and the club was rotten to the core as has been proven.

West Ham part 2 has seen him truly get his mojo back. Whether it will continue and he turns them into his better Everton sides, who knows.

We cannot deny that he gave us an identity again and got us believing. He just doesn't seem to have the right tools to get over the line though and that is why he is not a great manager but can be regarded as one of the better managers around.
 

wandyr79 said:
I think he has some very very good traits and needs to be in the right environment to be relatively successful.

Man Utd was defo the wrong move for him, it was never a good fit and I think Ferguson sort of knew that when he set him up for the fall.

Sociedad, not really sure as I didn't really follow him there.

West Ham part 1, did a good job but the owners thought differently and was unfairly sacked

Sunderland was a poisoned chalice and the club was rotten to the core as has been proven.

West Ham part 2 has seen him truly get his mojo back. Whether it will continue and he turns them into his better Everton sides, who knows.

We cannot deny that he gave us an identity again and got us believing. He just doesn't seem to have the right tools to get over the line though and that is why he is not a great manager but can be regarded as one of the better managers around.
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I'd add to the United scenario that the changing of the guard from Gill to Woodward also screwed him over. If he had left us a season earlier or Gill had delayed his leaving a year or so, it might have worked out better for him. Who can say?

Looking at his jobs since us, he has objectively not done badly with what he was dealt with. The exception maybe being United but there's lots of blames on players and the transfer fiasco from United's point of view in not supporting him.

My heart does not bleed for him however. Hopefully West Ham throw a spanner in the system by getting CL and it opens it up next season when fingers crossed, Everton have improved their squad and are poised to take advantage.
 
Chris O'Connor said:
The top 4 go straight into the group phase as the premier league is one of the highest ranked leagues. There are no qualifiers for any of the top four - tbf there haven't been for a few years now.

The prem teams keep getting into the later stages so it will continue until the change in format currently envisaged goes through. Then the top ranking clubs in Europe will all qualify regardless of their domestic league performance which will have knock on effects down the line.
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That's quite sad, probably why I have not watched the Champions League since about 1997.
 
Yarrgh said:
I'd add to the United scenario that the changing of the guard from Gill to Woodward also screwed him over. If he had left us a season earlier or Gill had delayed his leaving a year or so, it might have worked out better for him. Who can say?

Looking at his jobs since us, he has objectively not done badly with what he was dealt with. The exception maybe being United but there's lots of blames on players and the transfer fiasco from United's point of view in not supporting him.

My heart does not bleed for him however. Hopefully West Ham throw a spanner in the system by getting CL and it opens it up next season when fingers crossed, Everton have improved their squad and are poised to take advantage.
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I think if Fergie had actually wanted to help Moyes he would have approached him earlier, then had a transition season. Fergie leaving wasn’t like an average boss calling it a day.

Instead he flogged the horse dead getting that last league and, not having the motivation for a rebuild, threw in the towel.

I do think Fergie wanted Moyes to succeed, and he was as shocked as anyone that Moyes wasn’t given time to rebuild like he was at the start of his tenure. Maybe he didn’t realize Woodward was such an horrible little worm?

i also don’t think Fergie foresaw his players stabbing his anointed successor in the back.
 
JobForTheMoyes said:
I think if Fergie had actually wanted to help Moyes he would have approached him earlier, then had a transition season. Fergie leaving wasn’t like an average boss calling it a day.

Instead he flogged the horse dead getting that last league and, not having the motivation for a rebuild, threw in the towel.

I do think Fergie wanted Moyes to succeed, and he was as shocked as anyone that Moyes wasn’t given time to rebuild like he was at the start of his tenure. Maybe he didn’t realize Woodward was such an horrible little worm?

i also don’t think Fergie foresaw his players stabbing his anointed successor in the back.
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I think Moyes turning up and asking Robin Van Persie to play like Andy Carroll and signing Fellaini to replace Scholes whilst giving Rio Ferdinand Jagiielka instructions......whilst banning certain things from the canteen meant he lost the changing room.

fergies advice to Moyes was let the players lead you ..... He didn't have to change much but had to be a wrecking ball.

he can't manage big players.
 

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