2022/23 Demarai Gray

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johnjoeefc said:
In todays society i find that everyone just fails to look at anything with context. I'm surprised Gray is even as close as that in the last 2 seasons.

The reason being is Everton and Leeds had 2 completely different styles of play. Leeds bomb on their full backs at any given opportunity leaving their attacking players with a multiple variety of opportunities to score from, this is the exact reason why championship standard type of players like Bamford and Harrison were getting the kind of numbers they were getting. And both of these players also missed a considerable amount of guilt edged chances too.

Now consider Gray, most of his games if not all of them at Everton have been with no overlapping full backs to create space for him, he has had no midfielders really putting chances on a plate for him. Practically all his goals have been out of nothing type goals that he has had to do on his own.

Let's say Harrison signed for Everton and we continue to play the same way, do you think he will continue to put up the numbers he did at Leeds without an overlapping full back dragging defenders out of position? I absolutely don't think he would whatsoever.

I think we would see a player who would get frustrated with the lack of chances he's getting and would miss more of the few chances he would get than score them.

Now can you come up with a fact based response to counter my opinion?
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It is an opinion. I agree with you but it is all opinion.
 

Bit of an enigma is Gray. I don't think he's suited to the single striker role at all.

He should have a future because he clearly has ability, but for a reasonable offer I would also consider selling. At 26, I think he is - should be his prime years. If he isn't getting games then it's time to move on. However I also sympathise with the manager for not playing him because when he has played he doesn't influence the game enough to justify his selection and when you're scrapping for points, if he's not influencing the game he's just dead weight.
 
johnjoeefc said:
In todays society i find that everyone just fails to look at anything with context. I'm surprised Gray is even as close as that in the last 2 seasons.

The reason being is Everton and Leeds had 2 completely different styles of play. Leeds bomb on their full backs at any given opportunity leaving their attacking players with a multiple variety of opportunities to score from, this is the exact reason why championship standard type of players like Bamford and Harrison were getting the kind of numbers they were getting. And both of these players also missed a considerable amount of guilt edged chances too.

Now consider Gray, most of his games if not all of them at Everton have been with no overlapping full backs to create space for him, he has had no midfielders really putting chances on a plate for him. Practically all his goals have been out of nothing type goals that he has had to do on his own.

Let's say Harrison signed for Everton and we continue to play the same way, do you think he will continue to put up the numbers he did at Leeds without an overlapping full back dragging defenders out of position? I absolutely don't think he would whatsoever.

I think we would see a player who would get frustrated with the lack of chances he's getting and would miss more of the few chances he would get than score them.

Now can you come up with a fact based response to counter my opinion?
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Gray played for Leicester who played a fast paced counter attacking style of play with overlapping full backs and quality around him and he was no better in terms of output than he has been for us. That’s why he’s been bombed out of every club he’s played for for cheap. Hope this helps.
 

MikeH72 said:
Gray played for Leicester who played a fast paced counter attacking style of play with overlapping full backs and quality around him and he was no better in terms of output than he has been for us. That’s why he’s been bombed out of every club he’s played for for cheap. Hope this helps.
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Not really a totally fair comparison. He was in and out of that Leicester side. Most of his appearances were off the bench and he was younger. We could talk about how Harrison didn't score many for City if you like who create loads of chances for their players or alternatively how he played for New York City in a league where new York red bulls best player was Bradley Wright Phillips.

But personally I think the last 2 or 3 seasons is a fairer comparison to the player that these players are now.
 
johnjoeefc said:
Not really a totally fair comparison. He was in and out of that Leicester side. Most of his appearances were off the bench and he was younger. We could talk about how Harrison didn't score many for City if you like who create loads of chances for their players or alternatively how he played for New York red bulls at the same time as Bradley Wright Phillips.

But personally I think the last 2 or 3 seasons is a fairer comparison to the player that these players are now.
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What??? Harrison literally didn’t play a game for City, Gray played 169 games for Leicester. They weren’t all sub appearances either.
 
Toffee_Loaf said:
Bit of an enigma is Gray. I don't think he's suited to the single striker role at all.

He should have a future because he clearly has ability, but for a reasonable offer I would also consider selling. At 26, I think he is - should be his prime years. If he isn't getting games then it's time to move on. However I also sympathise with the manager for not playing him because when he has played he doesn't influence the game enough to justify his selection and when you're scrapping for points, if he's not influencing the game he's just dead weight.
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His best position is on the left where he can use his pace to run at defenders but Dyche is not going to play him there over McNeil.
 
johnjoeefc said:
Not really a totally fair comparison. He was in and out of that Leicester side. Most of his appearances were off the bench and he was younger. We could talk about how Harrison didn't score many for City if you like who create loads of chances for their players or alternatively how he played for New York City in a league where new York red bulls best player was Bradley Wright Phillips.

But personally I think the last 2 or 3 seasons is a fairer comparison to the player that these players are now.
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We could, but that would be pretty harsh considering he didn't play 1 minute of football for City.
 
MikeH72 said:
What??? Harrison literally didn’t play a game for City, Gray played 169 games for Leicester. They weren’t all sub appearances either.
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OK then let's compare this. Gray scored 9 goals in 100+ games as a rotation player often off the bench for Leicester in the prem. Whereas when Harrison was in the Championship on loan at Leeds he scored 10 goals in 91 games in a weaker league.

What exactly does that prove? Again It's pointless comparing that when the last few seasons is a better barometer.
 

MikeH72 said:
What??? Harrison literally didn’t play a game for City, Gray played 169 games for Leicester. They weren’t all sub appearances either.
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I actually don't dislike Harrison despite how it may appear with my posts. But I'm merely pointing out that if he were to be signed I think many would be in for a shock that he is actually distinctly average and no better than what we have already. I admire the way he has managed to maximise his ability to make it into the prem albeit getting relegated.

But his skillset is certainly not as good as Grays albeit his attitude might be better. As I said before I believe of the 3 linked Leeds wingers, I feel Summerville has the biggest upward curve. But then I'm not totally convinced by him either, I think all 3 should be swerved and look elsewhere. Gnonto is just total hype from people like Gary Neville but his size will work against him and he looked very easy to defend against towards the end of the season. Harrison is just an average winger with skewed stats due to playing style.

I think Thelwell needs to look outside the box and find a gem in Europe somewhere.
 
Weirdly with his pace I feel that he often slows the counter down when he should be tearing up the turf in front of him. It’s like, he stops and tries to beat the player in front of him instead of using all the space in front of him and going full belt.
 
Simon Buttle said:
His best position is on the left where he can use his pace to run past defenders and then stop, let them all get back behind the ball and then pass inside but Dyche is not going to play him there over McNeil.
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Fixed. Dyche won’t want wrong footed players on the wings, he wants crosses/passes into the box not people cutting in and ballooning the ball over a stand from 35 yards
 
PeregrineT said:
So much for "Now can you come up with a fact based response to counter my opinion?".

As everyone knows the reason Leeds gave up so much was because they had horrific individual defenders, and the worst keeper in the league. And WE were almost relegated, with Gray being a backup down the stretch while we picked up points, benched for 3 of our last 5 wins.

How many points do you think Gray's 2 goals and 1 assist from play got us? How many points did Grays goals and assists contribute to the team?
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Just to play devil's advocate, off the top of my head, Gray's delivery saved us from relegation two seasons ago. And he definitely got us a point at City this past season
 

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